When I play along to a backing track on youtube, I need to lower the youtube volume drastically to hear the pianoteq output - and then obviously adjust the master volume output on my audio interface.
why is that?
no matter whether it is online radio, tv, youtube - everything is much louder in volume than pianoteq
volume output in pianoteq is at 0db, which is the default maximum output i think.
any idea?
Hmmm....
Good point. I have wondered about this for years, but just accepted it.
On my Windows Surface, with both Pianoteq and Windows media sources (like YouTube, etc.) playing through the same Steinberg UR 22 mk II, I have the Windows master volume at 50%, and Pianoteq at 0 (or actually now, I have it bumped to +2 dB). As you have no doubt learned, Windows Master Volume does not affect Pianoteq volume.
Let's see what others can explain as to this quandary.
Yeah! I've noticed Keyscape is much louder in comparison to Pianoteq and my Kontakt libraries, and I haven't been able to figure out why. I don't know much about mixing beyond what I've seen in a few Youtube tutorials and figured out through experimentation. Mostly curious to see the responses here.
If you have Windows, can you right-click on the volume icon, then select "Open volume mixer". (similar but diff I'm sure for each OS)
Then you should see what levels are set for different system things, including your external or Pianoteq soundcard audio.
If that is raised to max there are still other things to try below - but if not, it may be the one setting you never think to find.
I have my external audio at 98 (seems it was that way by default - happy, so left it). Seems OK - and I tend most volume aspects on the outboard hardware knobs.
Pianoteq has in years past, seemed a tiny bit too loud to me, then a little quiet, but now seems a good sensible level (when I know things are set similarly in that Win audio mixer). No plugin should sound way loud compared to others, and users hear 'too quiet' as lacking quality etc.. but I think if our settings are OK, Pianoteq now seems to output safe yet high levels within a very pro-happy-making range.
Also - turn off any PC or OS installed "wide FX" kind of extras.. that may be achieved while checking your audio like above.. but if you open that mixer, then left-click the icon for your device on the mixer's top row.. that will open settings for the device where you can "tab" to various settings from volume and turning on/off whatever junk and good stuff your system has installed.
On "Enhancements" tab for example, I have check-boxes for "low freq protection" "virtual surround" "room correction" "loudness EQ" - any of those could make Pianoteq or other plugins sound wrong wrong wrong.
On a "Spatial" tab there's a selection of "Windows sonic for headphones" - honestly.. probably OK for watching movies?? but these kinds of things switched to ON can make music tools sound very weird and wrong.
Good luck - hope that's just the thing!
Yes, Qexl, but for whatever reason, Pianoteq doesn't appear as a discrete application in my Windows 11 Volume Mixer.
Oh, well. It all works for me, but I'm at the upper end of my preamp/external sound card to accommodate Pianoteq, and then have 'system sound' turned to 50% to Volume-match everything else (as everything else responds to system sound, but Pianoteq does not.).
it seems to be fixed for me now:
i had to reassign the volume control on my midi keyboard to the master volume in pianoteq - and now the max volume on the keyboard is in sync with the max volume in pianoteq (+12db).
before, it maxed out at 0db
Good to hear weightedKeys!
@David, I think the discrete item to tweak should show up as the audio unit not Pianoteq. Mine says "main device" and shows a generic looking icon with 'audio leads', then lists 'Main Out 1/2' - hope that's a help.
Keep posting though! - someone might think of another thing to try if that fails. Definitely don't think we should need to push pre amps too much. Pianoteq seems about perfect to me for volume (based on all the plugins etc. over the years).
it seems to be fixed for me now:
i had to reassign the volume control on my midi keyboard to the master volume in pianoteq - and now the max volume on the keyboard is in sync with the max volume in pianoteq (+12db).
before, it maxed out at 0db
So does it mean that without any master volume MIDI thing pianoteq sets volume too low?
So does it mean that without any master volume MIDI thing pianoteq sets volume too low?
yes, i personally think the default volume in Pianoteq is too low.
I've noticed that my midi input from my keyboard is way low in volume. But! When I load a midi file and play it back through PianoTeq the volume is much better and in line with what it feels like it should be. I have set a velocity curve and when I play my keyboard it is registering in the upper part of the curve at 100-127 on FFF notes. The midi playblack seems to register in the same range on the velocity curve. I have to turn the PianoTeq volume up to 7+ db and my Presonus audio interface volume up to 90% or more to make it sound as loud as when I play back a midi track at 0 db and 70% respectively.
Beyond what's suggested above and here re velocity curve, I'd think the best thing would be to post comparison files so we can hear the difference.. even if you record speakers with a mic.
Pretty interesting to see this - just not experiencing that phenom on my sys. A few years back I suggested volume increas a fraction which I feel was delivered over time. But.. seems like you guys are talking about something more than a small jump?
For me, Pianoteq is equally loud when playing, or playing back the recorded MIDI and definitely seems one of the better default volume adjusted VSTIs I use. My audio unit is not pushed to make it loud in any situation (volume knobs sit at 10 o'clock for comfortable listening - I'd only turn up for critical detail).
I just wonder, if it's working OK for me (presuming others), but not OK volume-wise for a few, is it something other than Pianoteq?
If you think there are no missing volume settings in the PC/OS, maybe I'd next suggest try making your velocity curves a little brighter, it may better match outside made MIDI files.
(a lot of publicly available MIDI files do sound way loud - various reasons including being produced on nice piano to MIDI systems, performers of high quality playing with a 'grand performance', compared to a laid back performance style.. and they may often use different velocity curves matching their piano/dpianos when recording.. not all that data will make them sound perfect and many do sound loud and may need tweaking to sound better to us, no matter the VSTI we play them with. Also plenty of poorly made MIDI files which just have 100% too much velocity on every note and it adds up.).
I just know on my sys, volumes are good.. it seems a system specific problem to me - but post files and it may give some idea what you hear and more likely lead to a solution.
If you're comparing Pianoteq's overall loudness to YouTube, Radio, TV, etc., then yes, Pianoteq will be much quieter on average. That's actually as it should be, since the dynamics in 99+% of recordings out there today are heavily compressed. If you want to replicate this in Pianoteq, just adjust the "Dynamics" slider significantly to the left...say around 10 dB or an even lower number. Not good for realism, but good for matching most non-classical recordings of piano.
I just ran into the same problem. As I read this thread of discussion, the reasoning behind preserving the dynamics of Pianoteq and the unfortunate reality of online medias being mastered with compression for loudness all makes good sense. Still, it does not make setting up proper and tolerable volume of a computer+pianoteq+DP combo any easier.
My previous setup sidestepped the loudness mismatch problem by having two sets of amp/speakers. Pianoteq feeds back to my DP which connects to a pair of studio monitors. The computer (Mac) output to a standalone audio interface then to a mini-amp and a second pair of passive speakers. Because volume control for the two paths of audio output are independent, it's easy to set them all to desired levels.
Recently I moved my setup to a smaller room and wanted to use only a single pair of studio monitors for both the DP/Pianoteq and for all the audio played on the Mac. The loudness mismatch is so bad. When volume knob on my audio interface is proper for Pianoteq/DP, YouTube video sounds deafening. Because I use online ear training courses during piano practice, constantly having to adjust the volume knob is just impractical. Basically, everything else other than Pianoteq is way louder. What makes this worse is because I set all audio goes via USB to the audio interface, there is no "master volume" software setting for that digital output path.
In the end, I purchased Rogue Amoeba's Loopback, created a virtual device (which can have volume control), and set it to be the default output of my Mac (except Pianoteq which still feeds directly to the audio interface). After testing and measuring with a calibrated mic, I finally settled on the virtual device's volume to be 50% in order to match loudness to Pianoteq.
Yes, and now I discovered an even more odd complication with variable volume levels. One of the issues with my set up is that for my ASIO output from my surface laptop into my UR22 mark two is that I have to have the volume knob on theUR 22 up essentially at full volume. If I am using headset, it really isn't that loud through my Beyerdynamic DT 880. So then I have to push the volume either in my digital audio workstation, or in Pianoteq itself, if I am just using the Pianoteq player.
The weird complication that I found was that if I changed the volume from zero up to +6 and then fix it there with the "freeze" control in Pianoteq, whether running Pianoteq as a standalone or Pianoteq in the digital audio workstation Studio One, what it does is variably change the volume for different presets. In other words, within one digital instrument, I can set the volume for, say, the player preset, and then expect all of the other presets to Increase accordingly, but this is not what happens. Some of the presets are correct, and some of the presets do not get "lifted" as much, or get lifted too much. Then, if I go back to getting rid of the "freeze" on master volume, and manually increase the volume +6 on each of the presets, they all Increase appropriately. Why this has something to do with the "freeze" function, I have no idea.
if I changed the volume from zero up to +6 ... in Pinaoteq
I'd be careful pushing Pianoteq's volume into positive territory. I also record by routing Pianoteq's digital output directly into OBS. Keeping an eye on the level meter in OBS, when Pianoteq volume is set to +0 dB, I see OBS level meter regularly hit -3dB at the peak (large chords in ff). Then, if I use a velocity curve, it could easily push the output into clipping. Using Modartt's recommended velocity curve for my Roland FP-30X, I find I need to set Pianoteq's volume to -6 dB or lower to ensure my recording is not clipping.
This means to achieve adequate volume out of the studio monitors for Pianoteq, the volume knob to change should be the ones on the pre-amp or the amp.
@David - I'm pretty sure the UR22c might not have the best Ohm match for those headphones. Your audio device I think is between 40 and 90 Ohms.. not sure because I've seen both in specs - maybe I'm mixing up an earlier unit for the lower number... but your headphones are 250 Ohm rated.. likely to be lacking volume and possibly sounding lackluster in other ways.
That could explain why headphone volumes seem poor. (Options include, getting an amplifier for headphones?, replacing audio unit as it's maybe some years old anyway by now? or putting those headphones in the box and getting another lower Ohm rated pair until you do decide to update the outboard audio unit?).
The overall system level volume control no longer working (with ASIO audio, like DAW and stand-alone virtual instruments etc.) is still a mystery to me.
Found some arcane data about needing to translate an ASIO stream to 21bit depth to instigate volume changes.. so perhaps that's a clue - but so far leads me nowhere (why it used to work, and now doesn't here). For me, the volume level is fine - actually good - so I'm not experiencing a problem.. but really interested in why I used to be able to alter ASIO volume streams in Win's little audio mixer thing, but not any more.
Someone who's very interested and knowledgable in this area of audio might know for sure. I'm blank so far. Other than feeling 'at some point' the OS (Windows 10) updated and my ability to control end point volume (with my handy qwerty keyboard 'volume' wheel control) was at some point removed. IDK - it really is just in that category of something I occasionally used went away - but what happens now, at least in my case - kept me from wanting it back. I had forgotten for sure about this thread though. It's not just Pianoteq which this effects, just any ASIO audio which is usually when using a DAW or host, or any stand-alone virtual instrument.
Will try replicating that 'Freeze' issue (after the weekend though likely)
@internable - that's an interesting setup - thank you for outlining what you have done! It may be helpful to many.
Yes, and now I discovered an even more odd complication with variable volume levels. One of the issues with my set up is that for my ASIO output from my surface laptop into my UR22 mark two is that I have to have the volume knob on theUR 22 up essentially at full volume. If I am using headset, it really isn't that loud through my Beyerdynamic DT 880. So then I have to push the volume either in my digital audio workstation, or in Pianoteq itself, if I am just using the Pianoteq player.
The weird complication that I found was that if I changed the volume from zero up to +6 and then fix it there with the "freeze" control in Pianoteq, whether running Pianoteq as a standalone or Pianoteq in the digital audio workstation Studio One, what it does is variably change the volume for different presets. In other words, within one digital instrument, I can set the volume for, say, the player preset, and then expect all of the other presets to Increase accordingly, but this is not what happens. Some of the presets are correct, and some of the presets do not get "lifted" as much, or get lifted too much. Then, if I go back to getting rid of the "freeze" on master volume, and manually increase the volume +6 on each of the presets, they all Increase appropriately. Why this has something to do with the "freeze" function, I have no idea.
The freeze subtility has been discussed early:
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=11196
This should resolve the problem.
For the output power, I don't know. I let the output in Pianoteq around -5dB and it sounds significantly louder than Noire in Kontakt or the Ravenscroft in UVI Workstation. I find Pianoteq powerfull