New Bosendorfer 280VC (Page 2 of 2)

I would not like to see Modartt being bought by Yamaha because that would mean the software would be enclosed in Yamaha hardwares (I think they barely release any software, appart from companion apps).
Now, if I were the CEO of Modartt, I would think twice before refusing any proposal from Yamaha. Touching the Pot O' Gold before leaving for a well deserved retirement would not be a stupid idea

Why follow on with this Yamaha specific nonsense?, why not any other company that could be pulled out of the air?

Why not Roland, Korg, or a left field move by Casio, perhaps software firms Arturia or NI just buying them out.. blah blah.
Non have any foundations at all, why keep to Yamaha?
Nothing in the tea leaves specific to Yamaha that I am aware of.

I suggest Modartt have been more about the product fulfilling a purpose (and making some money) rather than naked financial ambition and nothing else. The completely hypothetical idea of selling to a hardware company would trash their legacy completely!

The Kivir project
The marketing spend has never been that great.

The sales never that extensive. Never very long.

The cosmetic elements though quite nice now have never been uppermost on their agenda.

Organteq never struck me as a wildly commercial decision - it's just church organs!
In some regards like Kivir I suspect this was in part a labour of love.

Oh well. This is how rumours start..

For a time Roland had their own very high end physical modelling pianos called V Piano.
https://www.roland.com/us/products/v-piano/

Korg did have a go at physical modelling, but didn't really do the piano, bar the odd synth preset :
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/korg-z1-0?amp

Then there is this:
https://www.viscountinstruments.com/tec...xperience.

Also GSI Crumar has some hardware physical modelling for their electric pianos but not for the acoustic pianos which remained sampling, unless you count the CP80 which lives in both worlds.

I think Modartt are the only ones to offer official licensed models/to buy licenses that promote those brands to new users IOW mutually beneficial.

Supernatural is a hybrid system isn't it?

No knowledge about the Physis product personally. I've never wanted hardware modelling.  I think I heard of it from Evil Dragon on here, or somewhere (he gets around a lot!).

Software is better for upgrading. Controllers can outlast dated digital hardware modelling. I dare say it was good for its day.

I don't want Yamaha to buy Modarrt, I have never suggested that they would or are interested in buying it. I just said what I would do if I was in charge of Yamaha's digital piano unit. I think the pianoteq model would make a lot of sense inside premium digital pianos. And I think that the company who would theoretically make a move to buy and integrate the pianoteq model into thier pianos would instantly become the world leader in digital pianos. Why yamaha makes most sense is that they are not into modelling already like Kawai or Roland.

I own a Yamaha CSP-170. It's actually silly how much better the piano sounds when running pianoteq through the buildt in speakers rather than their own "low quality" samples.

I generally like the preset sounds so far, but adjusting the voicing parameters (esp. the hammer hardness) REALLY messes with the sound. I prefer to set the hammer hardness lower, which has worked beautifully in the past, but now it makes various registers sound bizarre. Might have to stick to the Petrof until I figure it out!

Oh, thanks :-)
I only noticed your reply now.

This video is weird. They put a pianist but the narrator don't allow a damn instant for we hear the piano sound performance. I wish I could shout to hin : "Shut up a minute and let hin play."
Háaa háaaa...

To compate to pianoteq fairly we would need to plug pianoteq in GP90 sound system, since the GP90 body probably add some woodness and the key vibration feature and speakers within the grand body give some pshychologic feeling of extra reality.

The video confirmed Supernatural engine use samples, despite Roland declarations years ago tried to hide that somehow. Only the Concert and premium models use this latest physical
modelling.

Some people on Pianoworld talked about compare both, and pianoteq was praised.

https://forums.pianoworld.com/ubbthread...noteq.html

This is a complex question. It really depends on how you are listening. The listeners expectations of how the sound gets to their ears.

I would expect Pianoteq to sound superior over a genuinely good monitoring system than any built-in loudspeakers in a DP in hi-fi terms.   If you pick good speakers and position them correctly the direct analysis of the sound will be FAR superior (warts and all).  The fidelity of the reproduction the sound that is coming from the source will be superior in good stereo monitors, but that isn't everything!

The way the loudspeakers are arranged in a high end digital piano changes the dispersion of the sound, it's not about absolute fidelity, it's about replicating a listening experience with an acoustic piano.

Lots of people evidently value the specific direct quality of the sound. They want Pianoteq to come from the keyboard itself rather than external loudspeakers. Room acoustics are going to make a big difference too; when we talk to each other on here about the sound of a given piano we are really talking about the sound under our fingers, our playing style, played in our room's acoustics, through our loudspeakers.

Or rather the loosely omni directional sound emanating directly from the controller (digital piano) instead of external loudspeakers is more similar to how the sound radiates from a real Piano. Some value that more than fidelity.

People always miss the last post in a page, so I'm posting again:

https://youtu.be/FYwednzzO3g?si=9UFGrj5lJisjK89-

This comparison needs to be redone to better match mic plasement and reverb.

Not sure if you will agree, but for me VSL bass sounded too heavy and a bit muffed. Pianoteq could be set to get a bit louder harp ressonance. Reverbs between both needs to be matched.

Anyway pianoteq feels more alive and is getting closer and closer in tone to samplers.

I have a Roland LX-708 at home and after some testing with both the internal speakers and headphones, I like the piano sound of the Roland LX-708 much better than Pianoteq. I particularly notice this with the new Bösendorfer from Pianoteq. I was really looking forward to this instrument when it first came out. After playing a few times, however, I was annoyed by the unmistakable artificial sound that many complain about. I think Roland manages this better with its model.

Playing regularly on our somewhat tired family Bosendorfer 200, I really appreciated the sound of this new instrument), A real pleasure with a quality DAC (AK4499EX on Topping E70 velvet), planar magnetic headphones (Kennerton Thror), or Shennheiser HD800, and a good tube headphone amp.
After a little more perspective and a little longer use of this virtual instrument, I am still enthusiastic, particularly appreciating the realism of the bass, and (new with version 8.3), a more faithful reproduction of the crystalline character of the treble, However, I am no 100% fully ecstatic about the middle register when it comes to note attack, but I'm not playing here on a hight-end acoustic instrument developed after many generations of piano makers...
it also seems to me that among the different options, this remains the simple "Bosendorfer 280 VC" option, and not the different "Bosendorfer VC..." variants which overall offers the sound closest to the acoustic instrument, despite a progression in the future still possible from Pianoteq towards the sound of the real instrument.

I did another test today using only headphones. With the Bösendorfer from Pianoteq, I can easily and clearly hear that the sound is artificially produced - so much so that it disturbs me when I play. It's different with the Roland model in the LX708. Here, if I don't pay close attention, I can forget that the sound is being modelled.

For me, this is an astonishing result. Because the piano model in the Roland LX708 is from 2018! Surely Pianoteq should be superior in 2024?

I tried for once without headphones, the Bosendorfer model (simple 280VC model without option in my most natural sense) with my complete speaker system (14 speakers + 46cm sub-bass in 550 liter box) (system which includes in addition to the infra-bass, 2-way Ruark Equinox speakers on the sides, 2-way Sony speakers at the front, 3-way Cabasse Sloop speakers on the sides below) with 2 Yamaha A-S1000 stereo amplifiers from 2x 110x and A-S500 of 2x 85w rms + power ice 630w rms for the infrabass, in a sloping room under the roof of 35m2 not very well optimized acoustically.
I must admit that the default setting of the Pianoteq reverb with this preset is better suited for the speakers than for the headphones, which attenuates the still distantly slightly synthetic effect (exaggerating of course very strongly: in the manner of a Wurly in Breakfast in America..) on the other hand this attenuation of the slightly unnatural character of the medium is done to the detriment of the precision of the attack. If it is very pleasant to have my ears free from headphones (which is not necessarily the case for those around me at 2 a.m.) I continue to find the model - of course very successful - of Bosendorfer from Pianoteq preferable with headphones listening even if it means having to rework the reverb to adapt it to listening without a speaker...

NB: with speaker listening, I probably should have added to my 14+1 speakers like last year my 2 Martin-logan Grotto-i 300w rms amplified subs to add a little more presence and physical vibration around 60hz by placing them on each side of the legs (I have not yet tried to plug them in again)

Bruno

Well, the Pianoteq Bosendorfer is a fine, fine, modeled piano, isn't it. Even among the other excellent Pianoteq pianos, this one stands out. Very satisfying to play. If you are new to Pianoteq and wondering which models to add to your collection, this is a great place to start.

Indeed. It’s an absolute marvel.

Really nice rendition of Maxine !!!   

The whole song plays out for me??? Maxine is 3:50 long (same as the album) and then it starts into The New Frontier for about 20 seconds or so

Hi,

In real life : i prefer Steinway Bell sound.

But since this new 280VC incredible Bosendorfer :

In pianoteq 8, i prefer the Bosendorfer....

This Bosendorfer have the Steinway Bell sound in Pianoteq 8, that the Pianoteq 8 Steinway(s) don't have :

When i play this Nocturne :
https://forum.modartt.com/download.php?id=5858

Sound like Moravec Recording....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHXxWfSAxik

i try do reach this Bosendorfer Moravec sound.

Modartt please upgrade/update  all of your Steinways.

The Bosendorfer is near perfection but too perfect, i've changed some unissons and others... :

my fxp :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/798kzoqv

But my Yamaha N1X doesn't have note off velocity, but polyphonic aftertouch for the release...
i use i midi script in Logic to modify polyphonic aftertouch -> to Note off velocity (Work only in LOgic but not standalone)

Can you add in Pianoteq a polyphonic aftertouch option that can control NOTE OFF Velocity ? of a midi script feature in Pianoteq ?

Bravo for your Bosendorfer.....

but you can now do Steinways much better !!!! ( i want The VSL D-274 sound)

or a Shigeru Kawai....

Regards,

Olivier Wladimir Frappier

my script in Logic 11 :

// Convert Yamaha N1X - Clavinova Polyphonic Aftertouch (20 to 32) release to Note Off-Velocity (1 to 12)

var SmoothReleaseKey = new Array();

function HandleMIDI(event) {

if (event instanceof NoteOn) {
SmoothReleaseKey[event.pitch] = 0;
}

   // YAMAHA N1X 32 to 20 Poly Aftertouch for slow Damper release per Key
  if (event instanceof PolyPressure) {
     if ( event.value > 19 && event.value < 33 ) {
     var Newoff = new NoteOff(event);
     Newoff.pitch = event.pitch;
     Newoff.velocity = (64-event.value*2);
    
     Newoff.send();
     
     SmoothReleaseKey[event.pitch] = 1; // option send only one smooth release note off value
     }

  }else{

     SmoothReleaseKey[event.pitch] = 0;

  event.send();

  }
  }

and the note off PTQ curve to use with this Script  :

Note-Off Velocity = [0, 32, 63, 64; 0, 9, 43, 127]

That was a quite beautiful performance.
Are you using PNOScan MIDI sensor strip?

Have you tried the morphing tool to create a hybrid between Steinway-D and Bosendorfer 280VC?

I wonder if Steinway will get countless upgrades, or if in a given time, as pianoteq evolve, it may be better to create a whole new Steinway-D model.

But there is still a attack strange feeling in Pianoteq even with 280VC

i often prefer to use sample library + Pianoteq only for resonance with script in Logic 11 :

To compare With the VSL D-274 (velocity curve fixed) and with Pianoteq 8 for resonances (SSR/SUSTAIN) and releases   :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6goKTEMAZ68