Topic: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Hi,
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano.
Steinway sound used : VSL synchron Steinway D-274, with 3 mics : Condenser + Ribbon + High Pianoteq 8 : chained audio in Logic 10, to reproduce all noises and resonances, releases duplexe, sympathetic....
Best of the 2 world : sampling and modeling.
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Great idea Olivier! - makes the sampled piano certainly more alive.
Other than your fine performance and wonderful overall sound!! (much enjoyed it!), this seems a fine inspiration for anyone, esp. those with some fav sampled pianos, to try Pianoteq for this exact reason. Also your supplied files will help many.
Marvellous - bravo!
......
An aside for the readers who arrive interested but see no way they can use the Mac/Logic files:
In Windows, I still find using Cakewalk (free DAW) the easiest way to place Pianoteq as a recipient of another instrument, or audio track (to 'resonate' only), by dragging it onto that other track's insert area, and right-click selecting "add as soft synth". That allows Win users easy handling of the excellent Pianoteq resonances feature. Other DAWs do it too - some do not - some similarly easy, some are fine adding Pianoteq as an insert.. different DAWs work similarly/differently or not at all yet (but more would be topic for another thread, some threads like this have come up if people still unsure would like to search for those).
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments) - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Qexl wrote:
Great idea Olivier! - makes the sampled piano certainly more alive.
Other than your fine performance and wonderful overall sound!! (much enjoyed it!), this seems a fine inspiration for anyone, esp. those with some fav sampled pianos, to try Pianoteq for this exact reason. Also your supplied files will help many.
Marvellous - bravo!
......
An aside for the readers who arrive interested but see no way they can use the Mac/Logic files:
In Windows, I still find using Cakewalk (free DAW) the easiest way to place Pianoteq as a recipient of another instrument, or audio track (to 'resonate' only), by dragging it onto that other track's insert area, and right-click selecting "add as soft synth". That allows Win users easy handling of the excellent Pianoteq resonances feature. Other DAWs do it too - some do not - some similarly easy, some are fine adding Pianoteq as an insert.. different DAWs work similarly/differently or not at all yet (but more would be topic for another thread, some threads like this have come up if people still unsure would like to search for those).
Hi,
Thanks
and thanks for the Windows Solution
However, in Logic 10, i've done a script to bypass the VSL sustain pedal, because VSL use Sustain samples when pedal is down, without separate repalling samples... so i use only pedal up samples from VSL, all resonances and noises are done by Pianoteq. (In VSL when you release the pedal, the Sustain sample continue to ring... and it's not like a real piano. )
For sampled Kontakt instrument like NOIRE or The Grandeur, it's easier : Sustain fx and others can be disabled in Kontakt player without script. For VSL is more complex... need script in DAW.
So, we have to not forget to disable all resonance and noises of sampled pianos, and use only pedal up samples. And adjust the Resonance level. ( i calibrate like internal resonance of a full Pianoteq preset between dry and resonance)
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Beto-Music wrote:
It would be nice to hear just the ressonances separated from the main sampled sounds.
hi,
You ask, and done
just quickly live done, playing live the beginning full and only with resonance (i've not recorded the midi file of previous video, i don't like midi file) :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Thanks to Oliver W for the examples of using Pianoteq for sympathetic resonance. I was inspired to try this myself. I could not find any mention of using Pianoteq for sympathetic resonance in the manual -- well it is mentioned but there are no instructions how use Pianoteq to generate sympathetic resonance for another instrument.. Eventually I figured out how to do it, though possibly not optimally since I had no documentation. I'm using Linux and the Ardour Daw I put a sample piano on a midi track (SampleTekk TBO played with linuxsampler). Then I put Pianoteq on a stereo bus. I had to fiddle with the output channels on Pianoteq, since Ardour makes 5 for Pianoteq, so I reduced them to 2. However, I saw that Pianoteq only had a single audio input (instead of stereo) so I routed just the Left output of linuxsampler to Pianoteq. I see that Pianoteq has some controls for sympathetic resonance at the bottom of the Design panel if you click on a round black icon that says "Edit settings for external audio input" when you hover over it. Anyway, with this set-up the sympathetic resonance is being added to the TBO sound which is definite improvement.
Make sure, you are using the VST3 version of Pianoteq 8 (standard or higher). To have only the resonances from Pianoteq, but no other sounds, you have to disable MIDI inputs for the Pianoteq node. See screenshot how to do this.
Make sure, you are using the VST3 version of Pianoteq 8 (standard or higher). To have only the resonances from Pianoteq, but no other sounds, you have to disable MIDI inputs for the Pianoteq node. See screenshot how to do this.
If you disable Midi , you will have only resonance, but note sympatheric Resonance rules between keys....
The best is to use Pianoteq as Plugin in a Daw, and use the Side Chain audio "on" and keep midi, but just set midi velocity at 0. (you will have all Sympathetic resonances rules for your sampled piano)
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
varpa wrote:
Thanks to Oliver W for the examples of using Pianoteq for sympathetic resonance. I was inspired to try this myself. I could not find any mention of using Pianoteq for sympathetic resonance in the manual -- well it is mentioned but there are no instructions how use Pianoteq to generate sympathetic resonance for another instrument.. Eventually I figured out how to do it, though possibly not optimally since I had no documentation. I'm using Linux and the Ardour Daw I put a sample piano on a midi track (SampleTekk TBO played with linuxsampler). Then I put Pianoteq on a stereo bus. I had to fiddle with the output channels on Pianoteq, since Ardour makes 5 for Pianoteq, so I reduced them to 2. However, I saw that Pianoteq only had a single audio input (instead of stereo) so I routed just the Left output of linuxsampler to Pianoteq. I see that Pianoteq has some controls for sympathetic resonance at the bottom of the Design panel if you click on a round black icon that says "Edit settings for external audio input" when you hover over it. Anyway, with this set-up the sympathetic resonance is being added to the TBO sound which is definite improvement.
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
That was nice, Olivier, thanks. :-)
Could be nice a function for that in pianoteq stand alone, to hear just the ressonances, even increase ressonance beyond limits. We would call this extra function of Ghost's Wisper.
And why not the possibility of split into sympathetic and string ressonance, harp ressonance, piano body ressonance, and controll the amont/intensity of each one.
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Yes indeed absolutely fantastic feature. I like those extra ideas for it Beto!
For those having trouble, there's prob. a lot to parse but here's some info..
Currently, the caveat being, that it does not work in all DAWs (yet) - and in some, it may only work in a non-typical way (ex: in some, side chaining doesn't happen to connect or show up within Pianoteq as expected and/or only MIDI can be parsed, not audio channels - and other glitches).
I think that is primarily why it's not yet fully documented, as it's not yet fully implemented/compatible with quite a number of DAWs, including a top DAW or 2. Until it can be working more commonly across more DAWs unfortunately most threads showing it off, will end up with users trying to understand "What is going wrong in my use case.. it does not work" etc. (my main reason for inserting 'for Win users' in my 1st post above - kind of inherently knew people would ask "Why doesn't this work for me").
My preferred working strategy would be drag/drop as insert, or automatically working correctly esp. with side-chaining for all, or even automatically as an insert in an FX send!! etc.. this is stuff which is probably a shipping container full of crates full of cans full of worms but fingers crossed it can end up being easy and useful for more users in more DAWs sometime in future.
That's also just why each time I see this feature, I like to point to good old free Cakewalk for Win folks - not because I'm using Cakewalk as my main DAW, but to me as a long-time digital music hack, this feature just works in most expected ways in it, and in some other ways too (and it's one DAW in particular which I've tested and found to work easily and in various ways, like as an FX send, or as a 'soft synth', with sidechaining etc. - but others do exist, inc. Reaper which is rightly popular here.. iirc that also works well in various ways currently on Win.. other useres have had trouble with Ableton unfortunately.. and I still haven't upgraded my old version on the new machine to test that..
The new resonances feature probably has some more improvements to come, before we can confidently say "Hey, just do this it works".. because for many, currently it likely just won't work yet as expected, unless they use the same DAW as the one giving instructions.. it should not yet be said "It's easy" because many will become frustrated and frankly could end up annoyed with Pianoteq for getting it this far and releasing it before more ubiquitous implementation.. I'd hope not though, and also another reason to keep posting this kind of explanation for anyone who reads.).
I can see it being implemented eventually perhaps, as a separate "FX" (some VSTs install as the usual single main codebase but will display as both instrument and as an FX in DAW 'browsers' etc.. whether you drop in the FX version or not, the main VST is still the source. IDK, using this feature as an FX seems really appropriate, esp. on an FX channel.. so automatically recognizing "the user has inserted me as an FX on a send.. do the auto-magic." I love love, like reeeally love the way Studio One does this.. no hassles fussing around with creating arcane channels and configs nor weird sends/returns.. drag drop something onto "send" and it auto-hooks everything up as a fully functioning "FX" send channel.. and these FX channels also have their own send now.. you can send send send to oblivion - the perfect thing for "layering" many instances of resonances off to the mighty event horizon.. So for me Studio One, possibly having a top 2 or 3 spot in terms of overall users and is the most functional and easy IMHO, is where I'd hope to see it working asap - to me, it does it best, in terms of user workflows and expectations, they 'wrote VST2 and VST3' specs.. it makes sense to me. Just another concerned user type of 'requestion' for that
Also a note to self and a few others - the fact we're even talking about resonances feature at all is amazing to me - in the best way.. excellent works over the long timeline leading to it - NONE of the things I mentioned about 'how it might improve over time' should be read to infer that there's anything wrong or bad with it.. no, it's brilliant stuff - and I'm just trying to point out, in detail why it may not work yet for many.. I do hope this will come, so I will keep posting - it will be a different thread outcome in future, when it works for more users.. so I guess I'd suggest "patience" - as we've seen nothing but focus on practically making users' desires and requirements into reality, no matter at times if those use cases are not ordinary.
Currently, hassles and differences among various DAWs are preventing quite a few from enjoying the feature.. many reading try it in their own DAWs in their own ways to find it not working.. and it can be like getting stuck in circular logic.. "I did what they said but nothing", over and over.. until "Ah, I see, it's not yet compatible everywhere.. doh doh doh".. confusing for many and a kind of pain in the assessment of it all
But back to all you posted Olivier, it is excellent and the extra scripting is truly super and next-level - so very very good and so cool - delivery for Beto's request is magic - and exemplary that, possibly in the near future, we might all with our own preferred tools each find our own next-level ways to work with this new feature as well as others (without hopping and shopping extra DAWs or doing things so differently depending on which DAW.. also just to note, the ones who will find most difficulty are those without so much experience with digital recording.. so whilst many here indeed CAN just from experience know they can try various things in various ways in various DAWs, very many others will not understand "what is going wrong?", the main reason I post this, to help them understand, if they choose to read through.).
Confident that may be within a window of perhaps a year?? Not sure - but fingers are crossed it can work seamlessly so workflows are not so different depending on the DAW.
Thank you again Olivier for your great music there too, all such brilliant inspiration. Seriously fab.
[sorry for word salads - just don't see all that context often and think maybe someone should point all that out when it applies.. I do think it will become more compatible over time as the takeaway prologue.]
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments) - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Qexl wrote:
Yes indeed absolutely fantastic feature. I like those extra ideas for it Beto!
For those having trouble, there's prob. a lot to parse but here's some info..
Currently, the caveat being, that it does not work in all DAWs (yet) - and in some, it may only work in a non-typical way (ex: in some, side chaining doesn't happen to connect or show up within Pianoteq as expected and/or only MIDI can be parsed, not audio channels - and other glitches).
I think that is primarily why it's not yet fully documented, as it's not yet fully implemented/compatible with quite a number of DAWs, including a top DAW or 2. Until it can be working more commonly across more DAWs unfortunately most threads showing it off, will end up with users trying to understand "What is going wrong in my use case.. it does not work" etc. (my main reason for inserting 'for Win users' in my 1st post above - kind of inherently knew people would ask "Why doesn't this work for me").
My preferred working strategy would be drag/drop as insert, or automatically working correctly esp. with side-chaining for all, or even automatically as an insert in an FX send!! etc.. this is stuff which is probably a shipping container full of crates full of cans full of worms but fingers crossed it can end up being easy and useful for more users in more DAWs sometime in future.
That's also just why each time I see this feature, I like to point to good old free Cakewalk for Win folks - not because I'm using Cakewalk as my main DAW, but to me as a long-time digital music hack, this feature just works in most expected ways in it, and in some other ways too (and it's one DAW in particular which I've tested and found to work easily and in various ways, like as an FX send, or as a 'soft synth', with sidechaining etc. - but others do exist, inc. Reaper which is rightly popular here.. iirc that also works well in various ways currently on Win.. other useres have had trouble with Ableton unfortunately.. and I still haven't upgraded my old version on the new machine to test that..
The new resonances feature probably has some more improvements to come, before we can confidently say "Hey, just do this it works".. because for many, currently it likely just won't work yet as expected, unless they use the same DAW as the one giving instructions.. it should not yet be said "It's easy" because many will become frustrated and frankly could end up annoyed with Pianoteq for getting it this far and releasing it before more ubiquitous implementation.. I'd hope not though, and also another reason to keep posting this kind of explanation for anyone who reads.).
I can see it being implemented eventually perhaps, as a separate "FX" (some VSTs install as the usual single main codebase but will display as both instrument and as an FX in DAW 'browsers' etc.. whether you drop in the FX version or not, the main VST is still the source. IDK, using this feature as an FX seems really appropriate, esp. on an FX channel.. so automatically recognizing "the user has inserted me as an FX on a send.. do the auto-magic." I love love, like reeeally love the way Studio One does this.. no hassles fussing around with creating arcane channels and configs nor weird sends/returns.. drag drop something onto "send" and it auto-hooks everything up as a fully functioning "FX" send channel.. and these FX channels also have their own send now.. you can send send send to oblivion - the perfect thing for "layering" many instances of resonances off to the mighty event horizon.. So for me Studio One, possibly having a top 2 or 3 spot in terms of overall users and is the most functional and easy IMHO, is where I'd hope to see it working asap - to me, it does it best, in terms of user workflows and expectations, they 'wrote VST2 and VST3' specs.. it makes sense to me. Just another concerned user type of 'requestion' for that
Also a note to self and a few others - the fact we're even talking about resonances feature at all is amazing to me - in the best way.. excellent works over the long timeline leading to it - NONE of the things I mentioned about 'how it might improve over time' should be read to infer that there's anything wrong or bad with it.. no, it's brilliant stuff - and I'm just trying to point out, in detail why it may not work yet for many.. I do hope this will come, so I will keep posting - it will be a different thread outcome in future, when it works for more users.. so I guess I'd suggest "patience" - as we've seen nothing but focus on practically making users' desires and requirements into reality, no matter at times if those use cases are not ordinary.
Currently, hassles and differences among various DAWs are preventing quite a few from enjoying the feature.. many reading try it in their own DAWs in their own ways to find it not working.. and it can be like getting stuck in circular logic.. "I did what they said but nothing", over and over.. until "Ah, I see, it's not yet compatible everywhere.. doh doh doh".. confusing for many and a kind of pain in the assessment of it all
But back to all you posted Olivier, it is excellent and the extra scripting is truly super and next-level - so very very good and so cool - delivery for Beto's request is magic - and exemplary that, possibly in the near future, we might all with our own preferred tools each find our own next-level ways to work with this new feature as well as others (without hopping and shopping extra DAWs or doing things so differently depending on which DAW.. also just to note, the ones who will find most difficulty are those without so much experience with digital recording.. so whilst many here indeed CAN just from experience know they can try various things in various ways in various DAWs, very many others will not understand "what is going wrong?", the main reason I post this, to help them understand, if they choose to read through.).
Confident that may be within a window of perhaps a year?? Not sure - but fingers are crossed it can work seamlessly so workflows are not so different depending on the DAW.
Thank you again Olivier for your great music there too, all such brilliant inspiration. Seriously fab.
[sorry for word salads - just don't see all that context often and think maybe someone should point all that out when it applies.. I do think it will become more compatible over time as the takeaway prologue.]
Thanks
I've uploaded better presets. Even the PTQ resonance, produce more real releases than the sampled release. All is about resonances (don't forget to set in Pianoteq the first undamped keys, depend on kind of sampled Piano)
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Hi Olivier W,
Very nice demonstration and rendering of this beautiful piece. What kind of MIDI strip do you use under the keybed ? The result seems good. Are you satisfied with it ?
Thank you, Paulo
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano.
Steinway sound used : VSL synchron Steinway D-274, with 3 mics : Condenser + Ribbon + High Pianoteq 8 : chained audio in Logic 10, to reproduce all noises and resonances, releases duplexe, sympathetic....
Best of the 2 world : sampling and modeling.
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Paulo164 wrote:
Hi Olivier W,
Very nice demonstration and rendering of this beautiful piece. What kind of MIDI strip do you use under the keybed ? The result seems good. Are you satisfied with it ?
Thank you, Paulo
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano.
Steinway sound used : VSL synchron Steinway D-274, with 3 mics : Condenser + Ribbon + High Pianoteq 8 : chained audio in Logic 10, to reproduce all noises and resonances, releases duplexe, sympathetic....
Best of the 2 world : sampling and modeling.
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Olivier W wrote:
Paulo164 wrote:
Hi Olivier W,
Very nice demonstration and rendering of this beautiful piece. What kind of MIDI strip do you use under the keybed ? The result seems good. Are you satisfied with it ?
Thank you, Paulo
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano.
Steinway sound used : VSL synchron Steinway D-274, with 3 mics : Condenser + Ribbon + High Pianoteq 8 : chained audio in Logic 10, to reproduce all noises and resonances, releases duplexe, sympathetic....
Best of the 2 world : sampling and modeling.
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Thanks. Quite impressed :-)
Olivier W wrote:
Paulo164 wrote:
Hi Olivier W,
Very nice demonstration and rendering of this beautiful piece. What kind of MIDI strip do you use under the keybed ? The result seems good. Are you satisfied with it ?
Thank you, Paulo
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano.
Steinway sound used : VSL synchron Steinway D-274, with 3 mics : Condenser + Ribbon + High Pianoteq 8 : chained audio in Logic 10, to reproduce all noises and resonances, releases duplexe, sympathetic....
Best of the 2 world : sampling and modeling.
Pianoteq used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Paulo164 wrote:
Thanks. Quite impressed :-)
Olivier W wrote:
Paulo164 wrote:
Hi Olivier W,
Very nice demonstration and rendering of this beautiful piece. What kind of MIDI strip do you use under the keybed ? The result seems good. Are you satisfied with it ?
Thank you, Paulo
Thanks
I use a digital midi keyboard inside this Grand Piano.
I've made a better picture tutorial here :
Regards,
Olivier F
i've improved the settings between VSL and Pianoteq 8 to have a Better Steinway sound :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Hi,
The Logic Pro 10 .logix for VSL D-274 + Pianoteq 8 hybrid piano have been updated to V5.2, with full half pedal sustain and easier way to disable VSL sustain samples to have real repedal within Pianoteq 8 real Sympathetic Resonance :
// VSL SCRIPT to use only PEDAL UP sample for Side chain Pianoteq 8 audio resonance and silent key :
var SustainValue = 0;
function HandleMIDI(event) {
if (event instanceof ControlChange && event.number == 64) { SustainValue = event.value; //set the value }
if (event instanceof NoteOn) { if (event.velocity == 1) { event.velocity = 0; }
var cc = new ControlChange; cc.number = 64;
if ( SustainValue != 0){ cc.value = 0; //set the value // Send to VSL fake Sustain value before Note ON to not use sustain samples cc.send(); //send the event }
event.send(); // send the note on as if no sustain pedal is on
cc.value = SustainValue; // correct the real sustain value cc.send(); //send the good sustain event
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Many thanks for this, Olivier; it's an extremely interesting experiment!
I was wondering how you deal with reverb (or, more accurately, acoustic space) if you're combining VSL with Pianoteq. All VSL samples have a baked-in reverb, because of the space in which they were recorded. By contrast, with reverb switched off, the Pianoteq sound is completely anechoic. How do you create a coherent acoustic space for both sounds simultaneously?
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Pianophile wrote:
Many thanks for this, Olivier; it's an extremely interesting experiment!
I was wondering how you deal with reverb (or, more accurately, acoustic space) if you're combining VSL with Pianoteq. All VSL samples have a baked-in reverb, because of the space in which they were recorded. By contrast, with reverb switched off, the Pianoteq sound is completely anechoic. How do you create a coherent acoustic space for both sounds simultaneously?
Best wishes,
Pianophile
Thanks - Pianoteq is used just to add Resonance without FX and mic's, with existing Ambiance + sound of the VSL routed. And it's coherent.
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
well I don't agree that much it's the best of both worlds lol but of course everybody has its own expectations.. I prefer to be fully pianoteq for stuff I can't have on a sampled piano : hammer noise etc
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Olivier W wrote:
Thanks - Pianoteq is used just to add Resonance without FX and mic's, with existing Ambiance + sound of the VSL routed. And it's coherent.
Thanks for this, Olivier. I've been trying it out myself and it works very well with the VSL Steinway. I really feel that this gives me the best of both worlds (i.e. sampling and modelling).
Please note that switching to 'Stereophonic' mode does not in fact turn off the microphones. It's just a specific microphone setting which the Pianoteq programmers decided to call 'Stereophonic'.
It would be better, in my view, to create a microphone setting in Pianoteq that's similar to the microphone perspectives you're using for the VSL Steinway. It's also better to use some form of reverb for the Pianoteq resonances, or to send both the VSL Steinway and the Pianoteq resonances through a shared reverb, at a low to very low 'wet' level. I don't think it makes sense to mix a completely anechoic resonance sound with piano samples that have such a clear room sound to them.
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
This is a great thread! I'm using a workaround for sample libraries where you can't just select the undamped resonances (e.g. Keyscape), and thought I'd share here in case others find it useful:
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
I coincidentally just got around to experimenting with this feature in the last week, using Cakewalk by Bandlab. I've tried it with a few VSTis as well as with the on-board sounds of my RD-700NX. The RD's SuperNatural pianos already provide pedal and key sympathetic resonance modeling, but the resonances are overly subtle in my opinion, and I had already developed a layering setup in Cakewalk, using Pianoteq to enhance the tone and resonance of the RD.
When first trying out the resonance feature, I initially added a resonance track using another Pianoteq instance in the layered project template with track mutes grouped in opposition to allow switching between the two approaches to compare them. But I immediately felt that I was losing too much of the richness in the layered setup and getting disproportionate reinforcement of the higher harmonics when using only the resonance enhancement. So I canceled the muting and tried having both Pianoteq instances working together.
I fully expected to get over-the-top resonances and muddiness from this three-way combination, but with just a little tweaking, I have to say I'm really liking it. I'm still experimenting with various tweaks to both the layered and resonance instances of Pianoteq and the balance of the three sources to get the most satisfying blend but feel that it's already pretty close to perfect for playing solo in real time. The velocity curves of the Pianoteq instances are carefully matched to the RD to deliver consistent loudness ratios, and various aspects of the layered instance's preset have been customized (starting with the NY Steinway Jazz Recording preset) to blend well with the RD. Reverb, EQ, compression/limiting and other enhancements are all from plugins in Cakewalk with dry presets in the RD and both Pianoteq instances to minimize the potential for imaging problems or other bad effects from competing DSP algorithms and to reduce the number of variables I have to deal with in the presets themselves.
After all these years, I may finally have found a digital acoustic piano sound and feel that doesn't leave me wanting a lot more.
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Dear Olivier, thanks for providing the logicx song "V7.01-FOR-N1X-FULL-VSL-D-274-with-Pianoteq8" I opened it and watched your video, too - but I'm not able to receive anything on my Pianoteq8 channel if the velocity is down on zero. I suppose this is because I don't understand the side chain issue (I see it is activated in you Pianoteq8 on top right side - can you tell what I have to do to get that side chain connection in LOGIC)?
Olivier W wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:
It would be nice to hear just the ressonances separated from the main sampled sounds.
hi,
You ask, and done
just quickly live done, playing live the beginning full and only with resonance (i've not recorded the midi file of previous video, i don't like midi file) :
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
The Logic Pro 10 .logix for VSL D-274 + Pianoteq 8 hybrid piano have been updated to V5.2, with full half pedal sustain and easier way to disable VSL sustain samples to have real repedal within Pianoteq 8 real Sympathetic Resonance :
// VSL SCRIPT to use only PEDAL UP sample for Side chain Pianoteq 8 audio resonance and silent key :
var SustainValue = 0;
function HandleMIDI(event) {
if (event instanceof ControlChange && event.number == 64) { SustainValue = event.value; //set the value }
if (event instanceof NoteOn) { if (event.velocity == 1) { event.velocity = 0; }
var cc = new ControlChange; cc.number = 64;
if ( SustainValue != 0){ cc.value = 0; //set the value // Send to VSL fake Sustain value before Note ON to not use sustain samples cc.send(); //send the event }
event.send(); // send the note on as if no sustain pedal is on
cc.value = SustainValue; // correct the real sustain value cc.send(); //send the good sustain event
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
JustinTimeMusic wrote:
Olivier W wrote:
Hi,
The Logic Pro 10 .logix for VSL D-274 + Pianoteq 8 hybrid piano have been updated to V5.2, with full half pedal sustain and easier way to disable VSL sustain samples to have real repedal within Pianoteq 8 real Sympathetic Resonance :
// VSL SCRIPT to use only PEDAL UP sample for Side chain Pianoteq 8 audio resonance and silent key :
var SustainValue = 0;
function HandleMIDI(event) {
if (event instanceof ControlChange && event.number == 64) { SustainValue = event.value; //set the value }
if (event instanceof NoteOn) { if (event.velocity == 1) { event.velocity = 0; }
var cc = new ControlChange; cc.number = 64;
if ( SustainValue != 0){ cc.value = 0; //set the value // Send to VSL fake Sustain value before Note ON to not use sustain samples cc.send(); //send the event }
event.send(); // send the note on as if no sustain pedal is on
cc.value = SustainValue; // correct the real sustain value cc.send(); //send the good sustain event
Hi, Olivier! I want to try your Logic script. How hard is it to undo the changes if I need to?
Hi,
I will upload a full updated preset Logic 11, for Pianotaq 8.3.1 and latest VSL STEINWAY D274 update : sound incredible, near the latests V280 Bosendorfer, but with a Steinway sound
New to the forum and late to the party but this is excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing the files. I downloaded your files in Logic and have Pianoteq side chained to VSL CFX3. With the script active and sustain pedal down, only C3 downwards work and sustain properly. I did not make any changes to the file I have loaded in Logic other than selecting a preset for VSL CFX3 since I don't have VSL Steinway. Thoughts on what could be wrong?
New to the forum and late to the party but this is excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing the files. I downloaded your files in Logic and have Pianoteq side chained to VSL CFX3. With the script active and sustain pedal down, only C3 downwards work and sustain properly. I did not make any changes to the file I have loaded in Logic other than selecting a preset for VSL CFX3 since I don't have VSL Steinway. Thoughts on what could be wrong?
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Thanks for your prompt response and for taking a look. Below is the preset I'm using in VSL CFX3. I have tried multiple times but with using the script to disable VSL sustain samples for pedal down, I hear muted sounds until I get to C4. I tried uploading the entire logic file via dropbox but was unsuccessful. Does the script only work for VSL Steinway sample?
New to the forum and late to the party but this is excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing the files. I downloaded your files in Logic and have Pianoteq side chained to VSL CFX3. With the script active and sustain pedal down, only C3 downwards work and sustain properly. I did not make any changes to the file I have loaded in Logic other than selecting a preset for VSL CFX3 since I don't have VSL Steinway. Thoughts on what could be wrong?
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
gfavs wrote:
Thanks for your prompt response and for taking a look. Below is the preset I'm using in VSL CFX3. I have tried multiple times but with using the script to disable VSL sustain samples for pedal down, I hear muted sounds until I get to C4. I tried uploading the entire logic file via dropbox but was unsuccessful. Does the script only work for VSL Steinway sample?
Gfavs Grand Piano.vsynpreset
Olivier W wrote:
gfavs wrote:
Hi Olivier,
New to the forum and late to the party but this is excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing the files. I downloaded your files in Logic and have Pianoteq side chained to VSL CFX3. With the script active and sustain pedal down, only C3 downwards work and sustain properly. I did not make any changes to the file I have loaded in Logic other than selecting a preset for VSL CFX3 since I don't have VSL Steinway. Thoughts on what could be wrong?
send me your logic VSL CFX preset.
To upload .logicx in Dropbox, before you have to compress it in .zip. I don't have the VSl CFX but i could fix your preset without CFX samples.
Try to .zip your .logicx and send me. i will look if the script is at the right place.
Thanks for your prompt response and for taking a look. Below is the preset I'm using in VSL CFX3. I have tried multiple times but with using the script to disable VSL sustain samples for pedal down, I hear muted sounds until I get to C4. I tried uploading the entire logic file via dropbox but was unsuccessful. Does the script only work for VSL Steinway sample?
Gfavs Grand Piano.vsynpreset
Olivier W wrote:
send me your logic VSL CFX preset.
To upload .logicx in Dropbox, before you have to compress it in .zip. I don't have the VSl CFX but i could fix your preset without CFX samples.
Try to .zip your .logicx and send me. i will look if the script is at the right place.
Thanks for your prompt response and for taking a look. Below is the preset I'm using in VSL CFX3. I have tried multiple times but with using the script to disable VSL sustain samples for pedal down, I hear muted sounds until I get to C4. I tried uploading the entire logic file via dropbox but was unsuccessful. Does the script only work for VSL Steinway sample?
Gfavs Grand Piano.vsynpreset
To upload .logicx in Dropbox, before you have to compress it in .zip. I don't have the VSl CFX but i could fix your preset without CFX samples.
Try to .zip your .logicx and send me. i will look if the script is at the right place.
I when i open your .logicx, and load my Steinway (because i've not the Yamaha) it doesn't work too, because the SCRIPT is "off", you have just to open the mix panel windows and click on script to set it "on". (in your preset the script is off)
and check the sidechain in pIanoteq too if another problem
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
Keen eyes. I thoroughly appreciate the assist and effort with examining the file. Yes, I turned off the script because with the script activated, the notes from A0 to B3 sound completely muted or dampened when the sustain pedal is down. The resonance from PTQ only seems to be engaged from C4 downwards. It's odd and I am not sure what the fix is. I attached the same logic file with the script turned on to see if it works properly on your end.
To upload .logicx in Dropbox, before you have to compress it in .zip. I don't have the VSl CFX but i could fix your preset without CFX samples.
Try to .zip your .logicx and send me. i will look if the script is at the right place.
I when i open your .logicx, and load my Steinway (because i've not the Yamaha) it doesn't work too, because the SCRIPT is "off", you have just to open the mix panel windows and click on script to set it "on". (in your preset the script is off)
and check the sidechain in pIanoteq too if another problem
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
gfavs wrote:
Keen eyes. I thoroughly appreciate the assist and effort with examining the file. Yes, I turned off the script because with the script activated, the notes from A0 to B3 sound completely muted or dampened when the sustain pedal is down. The resonance from PTQ only seems to be engaged from C4 downwards. It's odd and I am not sure what the fix is. I attached the same logic file with the script turned on to see if it works properly on your end.
I when i open your .logicx, and load my Steinway (because i've not the Yamaha) it doesn't work too, because the SCRIPT is "off", you have just to open the mix panel windows and click on script to set it "on". (in your preset the script is off)
and check the sidechain in pIanoteq too if another problem
This is an interesting read as I have the VSL CFX too. Would you mind to share if you got it to work with the CFX (I’m hopeless with scripting myself)?
Re: Pianoteq 8 used just for resonances with a real sampled Piano
johanibraaten wrote:
gfavs wrote:
Keen eyes. I thoroughly appreciate the assist and effort with examining the file. Yes, I turned off the script because with the script activated, the notes from A0 to B3 sound completely muted or dampened when the sustain pedal is down. The resonance from PTQ only seems to be engaged from C4 downwards. It's odd and I am not sure what the fix is. I attached the same logic file with the script turned on to see if it works properly on your end.
I when i open your .logicx, and load my Steinway (because i've not the Yamaha) it doesn't work too, because the SCRIPT is "off", you have just to open the mix panel windows and click on script to set it "on". (in your preset the script is off)
and check the sidechain in pIanoteq too if another problem
This is an interesting read as I have the VSL CFX too. Would you mind to share if you got it to work with the CFX (I’m hopeless with scripting myself)?
You have to set Half pedal on for my script , don't know if on CFX you can set half pedal like the Steinway Defaut half pedal :
Half Pedal : 50% or 100% (on) Half Pedal Range : 26 min / 96 max
And release : RS level : -inf (done with the resonance of pianoteq on release)
and send me copy screen of CFX windows settings....
tell me, i can't acces to CFX menu, because i don't have CFX.
but i've checked your .logicx : other tracks that are not in my preset (strange...) and the Sidechain in Pianoteq doesn't work in your .logicx preset.... don't understand why your preset is corrupted in Logic.... the sidechain doesn"'t work. you use LOGIC 11.0.1 ? : it's not the same than my original preset in bus and routing....(nothing to do with CFX or Steinway difference) don't understand : do you use LOGIC 11.0.1 ?
