[ Closed ] C5 is much louder than any other key on Model D

I had noticed this as well, just thought it was my controller (I use a temporary setup different than my usual FP80). Checking it again, it is present in both Steinways D, NY and HB. I don't hear it on Steingraeber, Bechstein DG or Petrof Mistral, however, so it doesn't seem to come from my controller. Contrary to you however, the effect is not more pronounced in Steinway NY Warm that the basic "model D", quite the opposite. We need to hear from more users to confirm if it's really there.

Wow, I considered making a post about this, but I thought it was just me. I only bought Pianoteq Stage a couple weeks ago right before the 8.2 update, so I don't really know what it sounds like before the update.

I have the Steinway Model D and the Petrof grand pianos. To me, the NY Steinway is worse than the HB Steinway and the Petrof pianos. I also think the NY warm makes it sound even worse. I was testing all the fifth octave keys with the same velocity and always thought that the C5 sounded brighter and the attack harsher(don't know if that is the correct description) than the others keys. I've been playing the HB Steinway and Petrof pianos more because of this issue even though I like the overall sound of the NY Steinway.

So far there are 4 "yes" votes and 2 "no" votes.
I wonder if there are differences in the setup between those who hear the problem and those who don't?
I'm one of the "no" votes, and I tried very hard to hear a difference. I even tried different octaves just in case I misunderstood which C is C5. I also tried various Steinway D presets for both the Hamburg and NY models - still nothing.

In case it matters, my setup is as follows:
Roland FP90X with built-in USB audio directly connected to Microsoft Surface Pro running Windows 10, using standalone PTQ 8.2 Pro

UPDATE: I set my controller to send fixed midi velocity of 100, and now I can both hear the difference and see it on the PTQ volume meter.
So my "no" vote should now be a "yes" vote

I don't disagree with that, but I did look at the midi velocity indicator on the PTQ screen and did not see significant differences in the values being sent when I played C5 and surrounding notes. Also, if the difference is imperceptible while I'm playing, I think it means one of these things:
1. I consistently play C5 softer than I do the surrounding notes
2. My keyboard consistently sends lower midi velocity for C5 than for surrounding keys
3. The problem is imperceptible to my ear, as I'm nearly 70 years old

I think I can rule out 1 and 2 above because, in addition to not seeing difference on the PTQ midi velocity screen, I also tested other non-Steinway presets that purportedly do not have the issue, and found no difference. I can't rule out #3 but I have noticed some differences (other than volume) at the note level on some presets which led me to upgrade to the pro version with its note edit capability. Also I have a similar complaint on the built-in tones of my Casio PS-X5000 in which I'm hearing G5 to be both louder and brighter to my ear, so I do notice things like that. But perhaps the problem is quite real and independent of setup, and I'm just blessed with older ears that don't detect it.   

Do others notice the difference while playing or are they playing a midi file with fixed velocities?

UPDATE: I set my controller to send fixed midi velocity of 100, and now I can both hear the difference and see it on the PTQ volume meter.
So my "no" vote should now be a "yes" vote

Thanks for doing it the scientific way with the fixed velocity - you should report it to support if you haven’t already (I know they look at the forum but an official support request is always best)

I notice it easily without fixed velocity. I can set my keyboard to fixed if I want to. The easiest way to see the problem is to turn down the volume dynamics to 0. All notes register around the same volume  except C5.

Edit: Well no I was wrong, the C6 is way lower than its neighbours. Could it be that somewhere in the code, the 5th and 6th C got mixed up. That would be funny actually.

Assuming the opener meant MIDI Note 072, I do not have a volume issue with it.

Tried presets ...
NY Steinway Model D
HB Steinway Model D

I used their factory defaults (the read-only preset stored on disk). Loaded by left-click for 1 second on the preset.

Then I added a constant velocity curve, here my example for constant velocity value 64:

This horizontal line can be easily moved up and down with the arrow keys after selecting the dot (btw it would be a nice feature if the dot could change its color after selecting).

I tried constant velocity 64 and 100 while playing notes on the keyboard in the nearby octaves.
No volume issues.

Pianoteq Standard
8.2.0/20240115 (Standalone)
Linux

I did exactly the same test with a midi file generated with identical velocity with virtually no audible or visible volume difference and check the default note edit volume which is actually lower for C5 in the model D preset . Just as a matter of curiosity I use pianoteq on Mac OS . Are the users who have experienced a C5 volume issue , window users ?

In case helpful..

Note:

#72

Presets:

#
Model D

##
Warm

I think it's evidently beyond subjective, that there is what I categorise as a small diff (nicely described above by Evo!).

To me, it suits the presets however and is not present in recording/performance style presets.

The 2 presets are - "Model D" and "Warm" - it's small but maybe some might be bothered by it.

If any alteration is decided upon - I'd for sure be fine with a small change - esp. though, if it's reasonably fractional. But am not moved too strongly either way. I do like this diff for a personal opinion.

If it was inherent in the piano supplied, academically, it's nice to keep the diff?

If it's in Warm only apart from Model D... that character preset doesn't suffer too much from it. I do kind of like it.

But in the end, we have "Condition slider" - so maybe if Warm is tightened up, people who like more diffs (character and loosened up a little), they can still quickly achieve something like that..

although.. maybe Steinway know why they added the little 'extra' in a C melody home note?? I'm not sure that it's not actually 'meant to' be there?? ;()

For the fine folks who did a really good thing posting here!! I like what I see.. Maybe worth suggesting, groovy is right - it is definitely really useful to use the MIDI number in stead of C5.. that can be different in different locales.. but the MIDI number is instantly locked in - no misunderstanding or duplicated efforts across incorrect octaves.

It is interesting - for sure - I can clearly hear the diff on both Model D and Warm.. to similar extents - but you say it's much worse on Warm..

Also if you hear some 25 or even 50 or 60% jump, to me, it indicate that your C5 (don't use the MIDI note number.. I mentioned it earlier, but I think I got away with it - crossed fingies!!) key could be accelerating differently. Such a physical annoyance, kind of made extra annoying that it may coincide with a slightly brighter note on a preferred preset.

But for sure send the bits Philippe requested to support - wondering if some attenuation to the note on both those presets arrives closer to a nicer outcome in your case? Good luck!!

https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...59#p994959

OMG!
I made a mistake...I misread the original post! I thought I read C #, because that is the note that sounded louder on my system. Obviously the OP was about natural C5!   I guess that's the kind of mistake one makes by going too fast, excited by the fact that someone might have the same issue.
I am sorry for the inconvenience, and for taking so long to make the correction (I was offline for a few days). Very embarassing to say the least...

You always provide partial information, so that things can't be reproduced and verified :-)
Which of both notes has one more bar? B4 or C5? At which "exact same velocity"? And which value had been "high velocity"? Which preset are you exactly talking about? Have you ensured that the preset is factory default?

(Teaser: When I guess your probable answers, B4 and C5 behave differently on my system ...)

Ok, so I found a fix! Yey!

It seems the bug is related to the Freeze settings, possibly after updating from 1 version to another.

The first thing I do when opening the app is to turn on the freeze settings as I want to keep the velocity and volume settings from my previous session. Obviously.

Well, I turned the whole thing off and flipped through all my favourite presets and noticed that the problem was fixed. Then I applied my prefered velocity curve and volume and it still worked.

And before anyone thinks that I must have accidentally locked in changes to a specific note. I dont own the pro version so I can't modify specific nodes, and I have never locked in any effects or other settings during my testing.

Now, c5 is actually slightly, but just verly very slightly more scilent than b4, which to me sounds reasonable.

If anyone still experience the same problem I encurage them to try the same method as me. Thanks again for all the replies.

No, you had to ask for b4 and c5 because you didn't even read the topic. Please dont lie to me.

Wow. and PEBKAC?!?!? How exactly was it my fault??? If Pianoteq for some reason makes my c5 key 30% louder than any other key without me directly modifying said key, its a straight up bug in the application. It oviously had nothing to do with my environment or my settings, as I could fix it by tempering with completely unrelated settings.

I litterally had to reset all my presets to factory level to make a certain key function normally. Thats not my fault, is it. If it was, I would like to know what I did wrong.

groovy, are you assosiated with pianoteq in any way? Im really dissapointed if you are.

Excellent news! Hope you can kind of un-hear that little diff - and enjoy the D !!

Seems naff - but I like it when a... "you call that a plan??" comes tegothre!

BTW - Great data and discovery Groovy.. after seeing that, I was going to suggest snurrfint tries altering stereo field (dpiano speakers being kind of tuned for the dpiano's sound lib and specifics galore). I'd still try altering stereo field setting, if I were using my old dpiano speakers - could be a good thing for any dpiano speaker user to try out.. they can have a quite different width by default, against a traditional monitor setup - and be more directionally diffuse.

Heya @aWc - nobody should be embarrassed - you are a true gent imo

Hey btw @snurrfint - firstly, glad to see you use Freeze function.. I was saving up a suggestion to use it, to capture the action related items from the preset you prefer (like maybe Classical Recording) where the action/keys would be more concert/performance ready.. and freeze those things (like hammer hardness etc. - even just that).. and then apply that to for example Warm - Ruined. That kind of thing, without Pro, might help you not have to hear that diff again... save your new Warm by snurrfint preset so you can load it again

Cheers all!!

I noticed the same thing, and thought I was hearing things. I played Hanon #1 over the entire keyboard, cringed, and did the same on Bechstein Player. My interest is playing composers on the instrument that suits their style, not fiddling with software, but an instrument that no longer performs well with 8.2 for any composer just doesn't get selected any more.