Topic: Quality settings in offline rendering (DAW)

I'm wondering if there has been a solution for rendering in high quality when rendering a session in your DAW. I found this thread from several years ago, so I'm wondering if anything has changed since. If not, propose as a feature.

https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=3883

Currently, since I have not been able to find any related settings, I have to record my performance running Pianoteq in parallel with the DAW. I get the DAW to play back the rest of the tracks, and I perform/record on Pianoteq standalone. I then export as audio and import the performance into the DAW.

That's cumbersome at best, and even worse if you want to either edit the performance or render it again trying it different settings.

Can there just be a setting exposed in the UI, so that while still the project is in progress I can have it off to not overload the CPU when playing together with multiple tracks. And then turn it on when I have everything ready and do the final rendering? Or is there and I am missing it?

Re: Quality settings in offline rendering (DAW)

krystalcode wrote:

I'm wondering if there has been a solution for rendering in high quality when rendering a session in your DAW.

Not sure exactly what you mean or are referring to by "high quality." There are many factors that contribute to various types of quality regarding audio and the performance of audio-producing software like Pianoteq or the various DAWs.

I currently use Linux (rather than Windows or MacOS), and use Pianoteq running as a plugin inside a DAW (Ardour), with a sample rate of 96 kHz per second for both the DAW and for Pianoteq's internal sample rate (I typically use 48 kHz, but used 96 kHz for this stress test), 256 samples per buffer/period (which at that high sample rate results in just 2.7 milliseconds of latency), Pianoteq's polyphony set at its maximum of 256 simultaneously-sounding notes, with the computer CPUs set to their highest rate and using the "Performance" governor to maintain rapid response and rapid speed (disabling frequency-scaling).

There are no cracks, pops or glitches in the audio produced by Pianoteq or the DAW, and the CPU load (percent used of the total CPU resources) rarely exceeds 50% despite all of the following occurring at the same time within the DAW--

  • Pianoteq (live MIDI input and audio output)

  • U-He Diva synth (responding to the same MIDI input as Pianoteq and producing audio)

  • Seven previously recorded audio tracks, all played back simultaneously while sending MIDI live to both Pianoteq and Diva.

  • Recording the Pianoteq plugin's real-time audio output onto another track.

This seems to me to be both high-quality and fairly-high performance, for both the DAW and for the Pianoteq plugin and its audio output.

While using Pianoteq as a plugin in a DAW, you could try to reduce Pianoteq's internal sample rate when you need to reduce CPU-usage, and raise it when you want to record Pianoteq's audio output. You could record the MIDI being sent to Pianoteq as you accompany the other audio tracks, then mute the other audio tracks, raise the sample rate of Pianoteq, and record the audio output of Pianoteq as it plays back the previously-recorded MIDI.

https://i.imgur.com/LgBi4UR.jpg

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (26-10-2023 14:28)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Quality settings in offline rendering (DAW)

Thanks, I have a very  similar setup on Linux (Ardour, using 96kHz, performance governor etc.). I do not have issues with performance so far.

When you export to audio directly from the Pianoteq standalone, there is an option to export in high quality. My understanding is that Pianoteq does compromise quality a bit during live performances in order to minimize the risks of CPU overloads i.e. cracks and glitches. When doing offline rendering (exporting to audio), however, it can use the full power of the CPU and take as much time as it needs, so it can produce higher quality.

When I do music production in the studio, I want to achieve the best quality possible, so I want to take advantage of the offline rendering feature. I have not found any documentation that would clarify what mode is it rendering on in the DAW, and I have not done extensive testing myself, but it seems that it is the live performance mode - which is obviously acceptable but lowers the quality a bit.

With the offline rendering mode I have achieved mixes that I would not understand myself that it is not a real piano, so I'm happy with that.

Re: Quality settings in offline rendering (DAW)

krystalcode wrote:

I'm wondering if there has been a solution ...

I'll chime in-- and hopefully not pile on-- as someone who uses multiple DAWs, sometimes at the same time, but also uses just Pianoteq standalone by itself, I will say that how you configure a DAW and track(s) within it can affect performance in many ways. So look to that. Also I noticed Pianoteq Options may reset themselves when used in plugin form vs the stand alone-- which makes sense-- but you can also check there. Best of luck!

MOTU M2 using native ASIO driver, Windows 11, weird tweaks needed to make it work, but seems fine now.
I have posted several times about tweaking Pianoteq

Re: Quality settings in offline rendering (DAW)

krystalcode wrote:

When you export to audio directly from the Pianoteq standalone, there is an option to export in high quality. My understanding is that Pianoteq does compromise quality a bit during live performances in order to minimize the risks of CPU overloads i.e. cracks and glitches.

I don't believe so.

In order to accommodate various computers and CPU resources, Pianoteq allows the user to change the sample rate (including Pianoteq's internal sample rate), the buffer size to hold a specific number of samples, and the number of simultaneous notes allowed to sound.

For me, 48 kHz is a reasonable sampling rate; any higher sample rate, while useful for various purposes, doesn't seem to add audible detail to the sound produced by Pianoteq.

With my computer/CPU specifications and haing installed a low-latency linux kernel, I'm often able to use a very small buffer size of 64, for almost  no latency (about 1.4 thousandths of a second).

when using Pianoteq as either a standalone app or as a plugin in a DAW, I set Pianoteq's internal sample rate to match the overall sample rate (48 kHz in my case), because I don't need to reduce Pianoteq's internal sample rate in order to place a lighter load on the CPUs and computer, and I set Pianoteq's polyphony (maximum number of simultaneously sounding notes) to the highest value of 256.

I don't believe that the Pianoteq developers have intentionally degraded the sound/audio produced by the Pianoteq engine for live performance, nor added any special "extra quality" to exported audio. The "high quality" settings in the Pianoteq export-audio-file window (I believe) merely allow for maximum polyphony and the ability to export with a sample rate higher than that which might cause some audio artifacts or issues when playing live.

It would be nice if a Modartt developer would comment on this subject.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (27-10-2023 14:11)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq