Topic by Graham

  • Avatar
  • Graham
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: England
  • Registered: 09-02-2010
  • Posts: 14

Topic: Request : Bigger mic position window

Hi, I have been a lurker here for over a year and have read every topic so I know this kind of thing has been requested (might have only been for a bigger EQ window only, but can't remember exactly) so this post is a reminder to the developers + get a couple of supporters so this actually has a chance of being taken note of.

Only in the last week or so have I realised how fiddly the mic position window can be, Ive been using 5 mics close together as in the C3 intimate scenario, and it has become hard to click and drag the correct mic without first turning off ones near it, then re-enabling them to check the overall sound, then disabling to move etc etc.... One time a mic got stuck too close to the edge of the lid (terrible luck) and I couldnt drag it without first moving the lid out of the way which I didnt want to do as I had tweaked it to a certain 2 pixel range and didn't want to waste time finding that spot again, yes I could have used top view but I didn't want to mess up my mic positioning on that axis (tweaked to 1 pixel).

This was also something I never noticed before because I just used to throw 3 or 4 mics around in general areas spaced apart, but 1 pixel movement in a mic has a big impact on sound(when close to the soundboard anway), seems unrealistically large to me but I am not concerned with the realism side of it, If 1 pixel did not change the sound so much then I would not be so bothered but because of this If I drag the wrong mic it can mess up my 1 pixel tweaks which then take precious time to find again.

What I can see that looks an easy solution is that each mic window could expand to 2x size, eg. top view bottom right corner would move south east, with some slick graphical effect no doubt, I measured the mic window size and if the top of the window was moved up a bit (there is room for this) then it could expand to exactly 2x without covering the keyboard at the bottom, this would give greater accuracy for grabbing the mics, and possibly mean 2 pixels for every change in sound which is easier than trying to move a mic 1 pixel up without also dragging it 1 left or right, very fiddly I can say.

What would probably happen though is it would just give more resolution to mic position, so it would still be 1 pixel to change sound, but at least selecting the right mic  (and unsticking one from a lid :) ) would be easier.

Disclaimer : yeah I skimmed the manual for 30 seconds but didn't see any way to enlarge the view, having read every topic I know there are occasionally some 'hidden' features people don't know about so I am ready to be informed.

PS. Only just thought of this, could make the mics selectable by keyboard and moved 1 pixel at a time by the arrow keys, could be programmed into PTQ in less than 10 minutes I would say, so I'll be back tomorrow to dl the updated version..    (yeah right :)  )

G.

Reply by sawtooth

  • Avatar
  • sawtooth
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-05-2008
  • Posts: 57

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

When it comes to the various positions you can right click on the lid or an individual microphone to get a text entry screen that will tell you the current position as a numerical value.

You could then move the lid out of the way and put it back exactly where it was.

There had been an issue where right clicking a microphone when some were disabled would get the wrong mic settings but that was quickly fixed last year after I reported the issue.  (So if you try this with some mics disabled and get the wrong mic text settings then you may need to update.)

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

Yeah, I'd also like a bigger Microphone Position window, and even resizeable when it's detached!

Also the room could be bigger, and we should be able to:

* move the piano around
* draw the shape of the room
* determine material of walls, ceiling and floor

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Graham

  • Avatar
  • Graham
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: England
  • Registered: 09-02-2010
  • Posts: 14

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

Cheers sawtooth, your suggestion will definitely help if I encounter that particular problem again.

Evil, I think you can draw different rooms with Rayspace if you have not already tried that, I only demo'd it, and it was a long time ago so can't vouch for quality.

Last edited by Graham (13-02-2010 00:20)

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

While we're on the subject...  The biggest thing on my mic room wish list is the ability to control the fade out point of a mic.  There is no way to isolate just the lower range of the keyboard and send it out by itself without getting bleed from the upper range.  I suggest two circular graphics around a mic so that one indicated where the fall-off started and the other where the input to that mic is zero.  Even if this was too complex to apply to every mic and only worked in a stereo situation, it would be OK with me -though, 2.1 would be best (left, right, sub).

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

Cellomangler - the mics in Pianoteq are perfect omnidirectional mics and this is why you get bleeds all over. Are you suggesting that there should be an option to switch the mic pattern to cardiod, hypercardiod, figure 8, etc.?

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

EvilDragon wrote:

Cellomangler - the mics in Pianoteq are perfect omnidirectional mics and this is why you get bleeds all over. Are you suggesting that there should be an option to switch the mic pattern to cardiod, hypercardiod, figure 8, etc.?

Doesn't have to be that complex as far as directionality.  It can be a spherical pattern but with a definite, controllable drop-off.   My basic usage is to send the lower range into an outboard effect and the upper range into another without having the bleed.  Unless I'm missing something, I've tried placing a mic every place close to the bass register and then way further to the left of the piano and I still get higher notes coming through that mic, albeit, not as loud.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

Hm... can you just use some lowpass/highpass filtering before applying your outboard effect, at least to mimic the rolloff?

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

EvilDragon wrote:

Hm... can you just use some lowpass/highpass filtering before applying your outboard effect, at least to mimic the rolloff?

The problem with a shelving EQ is that it will also remove the high frequency content in the attack portion of lower notes, which is particularly present when striking hard.  That's the rub.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

Didn't mean on shelving EQ, I meant on actual highpass or lowpass filter (there's a difference ). So you can modulate cutoff frequency to increase with velocity, that's not a problem

Last edited by EvilDragon (13-02-2010 02:11)
Hard work and guts!

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

EvilDragon wrote:

Didn't mean on shelving EQ, I meant on actual highpass or lowpass filter (there's a difference ). So you can modulate cutoff frequency to increase with velocity, that's not a problem

Some texts consider pass filters as a type of shelving filter - a shelving filter with the plateau set to the extreme becomes a pass filter .   They are different, but regardless, you still lose the high frequency content of the strike portion of the low notes no matter what the strike velocity.  You also lose the high frequency content in the hammer and action noise as well as the higher sympathetic overtones that are generated.  And... well, it's just not an elegant solution.   A better workaround is to use two instances of Piantoteq Pro and gradually lower the note levels accordingly.  Now.... whether or not a lowered high note will still produce the same level sympathetic vibration when driven by a low note or if these parameters are even related in the virtual model, I'd have to test.

Last edited by Cellomangler (13-02-2010 03:07)
"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Request : Bigger mic position window

EvilDragon wrote:

Also the room could be bigger, and we should be able to:
* move the piano around
* draw the shape of the room
* determine material of walls, ceiling and floor

I'd like to be able to put people in my room and determine their clothing and demographics.  I'm sure smoke has an effect but I'd only want to add it if the virtual smoke was inert and had no effect on the "audience".  And if the people could be made to dance to the music at the appropriate tempo and style -or even with random settings...  yeah, this could be cool!
(....sorry... I was bored for a moment.....back to the chain gang........... )

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website