Topic by prelude

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Topic: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

I'm a returning piano player who is looking for a good MIDI controller keyboard.  It will be used both for solo piano playing and for production/recording.  I'd appreciate specific models that you'd recommend, but I am also open to general advice as to what to look for (and avoid).  I know I want weighted keys, hammer action, 88-key keyboard, etc.  I'm of course looking for something that emulates as closely as possible a "real" piano in its feel, but, as said, I need it to also interface well with the recording world.  I also am looking for something that has good build quality and durability (I've read that some brands have a bad reputation here), as well as good customer support.

I had been thinking about the Kawai VPC1, but I read (https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=6886) that it has some considerable issues with MIDI output, as well as having somewhat short keys, and given the price tag it doesn't seem what I'm looking for.  My budget would be preferably under €1500, but if there's something just beyond that, I'd be interested in knowing.  I live in Europe, so I'd be looking for something sold here.  Thanks for any info!

Last edited by prelude (22-08-2022 01:10)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

Yikes.
Maybe I shouldn't set my sights on upgrading to a VPC1 at all, if there's a few dodgy VPC1s out there?

Well under your budget - but you might want to combine that with other midi controllers for extra features?
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/a-88mk2/

Maybe consider one of these perhaps used or B stock and/or 73 key, if that's enough?:
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/korg-grandstage-88

Or find a used Kawai MP10 or MP11se?

Last edited by Key Fumbler (21-08-2022 21:47)

Reply by prelude

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

Key Fumbler wrote:

Yikes.
Maybe I shouldn't set my sights on upgrading to a VPC1 at all, if there's a few dodgy VPC1s out there?

Well under your budget - but you might want to combine that with other midi controllers for extra features?
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/a-88mk2/

Maybe consider one of these perhaps used or B stock and/or 73 key, if that's enough?:
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/korg-grandstage-88

Or find a used Kawai MP10 or MP11se?

Thanks -- the A88-mkII seems interesting.  Anyone had any experience with it?

Reply by homerghost

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

prelude wrote:

Thanks -- the A88-mkII seems interesting.  Anyone had any experience with it?

Ymmv but it uses Roland's PHA-4 action which I absolutely despise. It's not wholly unplayable, but if you like playing classical/trills/fast, it's not a joy to play at all.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

homerghost wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- the A88-mkII seems interesting.  Anyone had any experience with it?

Ymmv but it uses Roland's PHA-4 action which I absolutely despise. It's not wholly unplayable, but if you like playing classical/trills/fast, it's not a joy to play at all.

What actions are actually good for fast trilling?
Also are they only the most expensive ones?

It's hard to believe that competent engineer couldn't make an affordable key mechanism for fast trills that doesn't cost an arm and a leg after all these years - unless of course the financial incentive is to not provide that at an affordable level. Keep them on the upgrade path!
Cynical I know.

Reply by prelude

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

homerghost wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- the A88-mkII seems interesting.  Anyone had any experience with it?

Ymmv but it uses Roland's PHA-4 action which I absolutely despise. It's not wholly unplayable, but if you like playing classical/trills/fast, it's not a joy to play at all.

Thanks -- that's exactly one of the uses I'd be using it for.  What would you recommend?

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

prelude wrote:
homerghost wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- the A88-mkII seems interesting.  Anyone had any experience with it?

Ymmv but it uses Roland's PHA-4 action which I absolutely despise. It's not wholly unplayable, but if you like playing classical/trills/fast, it's not a joy to play at all.

Thanks -- that's exactly one of the uses I'd be using it for.  What would you recommend?

If you want Roland, the FP 90x has their best action, with wooden keys.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

Even high end Kawai and Nord are controversial for some. Ignorance is bliss!

Anyway for Nord they used a high end Kawai action and left a part out:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....proof.html

Pretty sure that's going to be swings and roundabouts, other why would Kawai build them like that in the first place?

Reply by prelude

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

BarbaraRB wrote:
prelude wrote:
homerghost wrote:

Ymmv but it uses Roland's PHA-4 action which I absolutely despise. It's not wholly unplayable, but if you like playing classical/trills/fast, it's not a joy to play at all.

Thanks -- that's exactly one of the uses I'd be using it for.  What would you recommend?

If you want Roland, the FP 90x has their best action, with wooden keys.

Thanks -- someone in another thread said that wooden keys were problematic because they swell and warp...I have no idea....

Last edited by prelude (23-08-2022 16:05)

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

prelude wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- that's exactly one of the uses I'd be using it for.  What would you recommend?

If you want Roland, the FP 90x has their best action, with wooden keys.

Thanks -- someone in another thread said that wooden keys were problematic because they swell and warp...I have no idea....

I haven't heard that.  Roland gives a long warranty for both parts and labor.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

prelude wrote:

Thanks -- someone in another thread said that wooden keys were problematic because they swell and warp...I have no idea....

Humidity can be an issue.

It would very much depend on where the piano was kept. Tropical environments present a challenge for some materials, and it wouldn't be a good idea to keep a piano next to a sauna!

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

Key Fumbler wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- someone in another thread said that wooden keys were problematic because they swell and warp...I have no idea....

Humidity can be an issue.

It would very much depend on where the piano was kept. Tropical environments present a challenge for some materials, and it wouldn't be a good idea to keep a piano next to a sauna!

We'll have to warn Stig, in Finland, because they are big on saunas!

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

New related thread here:
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9709

Reply by Pianoteqenthusiast

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

BarbaraRB wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:
prelude wrote:

Thanks -- someone in another thread said that wooden keys were problematic because they swell and warp...I have no idea....

Humidity can be an issue.

It would very much depend on where the piano was kept. Tropical environments present a challenge for some materials, and it wouldn't be a good idea to keep a piano next to a sauna!

We'll have to warn Stig, in Finland, because they are big on saunas!

Thank you BarbaraRB for the warning! Humidity alternated with cold is a piano problem. I ddn’t know that Pianoteq will handle it, not to mention my KIVIR instruments. Because in the sauna it gets humid at 80 degrees Celsius when you throw water on the hot stones. At the same time as it can be in the winter - 50 degrees celsius outside in northern Finland  and in central Finland on the westcoast, Vasa (Vaasa) my home town, -33 degrees celsius (2018). Strangely enough, Pianoteq does not lose the tuning, despite the difference of 110 degrees Celsius !!   Wonderful these pianoteq instruments   

In addition, if someone like us, a few years ago, had old windows frames with cracks where cold air blew in…but it was difficult to play - Pianoteq working but not my stiff fingers 

I love this forum with so many people who have humor and share joy.


Thank you BarbaraRB and everyone in this forum (and the Modartt team). I’ll never forget your support and kindness.

Best wishes,

Stig

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (24-08-2022 14:34)

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Recommendations for good MIDI controller (weighted keys, etc)

Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:

Humidity can be an issue.

It would very much depend on where the piano was kept. Tropical environments present a challenge for some materials, and it wouldn't be a good idea to keep a piano next to a sauna!

We'll have to warn Stig, in Finland, because they are big on saunas!

Thank you BarbaraRB for the warning! Humidity alternated with cold is a piano problem. I ddn’t know that Pianoteq will handle it, not to mention my KIVIR instruments. Because in the sauna it gets humid at 80 degrees Celsius when you throw water on the hot stones. At the same time as it can be in the winter - 50 degrees celsius outside in northern Finland  and in central Finland on the westcoast, Vasa (Vaasa) my home town, -33 degrees celsius (2018). Strangely enough, Pianoteq does not lose the tuning, despite the difference of 110 degrees Celsius !!   Wonderful these pianoteq instruments   

In addition, if someone like us, a few years ago, had old windows frames with cracks where cold air blew in…but it was difficult to play - Pianoteq working but not my stiff fingers 

I love this forum with so many people who have humor and share joy.


Thank you BarbaraRB and everyone in this forum (and the Modartt team). I’ll never forget your support and kindness.

Best wishes,

Stig

I sincerely hope you are not playing piano and organ in the sauna, and certainly not throwing water on hot stones when you play! Although there are times, when I listen to your performances that I say to myself, "whoa! This man's on fire!"