Topic: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Hello everyone, I'm rather new to pianoteq so hope my question makes sense.
When playing with my digital piano attached to my laptop or when replaying a recorded MIDI file, The sound is very clear and even with MIDI inputs of the maximum 127 I never hear any sound clipping (the pianoteq volume is set to default). However, when exporting to MP3/WAV file, there is alot of sound clipping on the recording. I tried playing with some settings including ticking the "Normalize output volume" which didn't help. Is this normal? and if not, what can be the explanation for the difference between the exported file and the realtime sound generated by pianoteq? Right now the only way for me to get rid of the clipping is by lowering the volume, but then the volume is too quiet.

Thanks in advance.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Carpet4 wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm rather new to pianoteq so hope my question makes sense.
When playing with my digital piano attached to my laptop or when replaying a recorded MIDI file, The sound is very clear and even with MIDI inputs of the maximum 127 I never hear any sound clipping (the pianoteq volume is set to default). However, when exporting to MP3/WAV file, there is alot of sound clipping on the recording. I tried playing with some settings including ticking the "Normalize output volume" which didn't help. Is this normal? and if not, what can be the explanation for the difference between the exported file and the realtime sound generated by pianoteq? Right now the only way for me to get rid of the clipping is by lowering the volume, but then the volume is too quiet.

Thanks in advance.

That's odd the normalization didn't work, it always works for me, have you tried reinstalling the program or changing any of the audio settings? Setting to High Quality might be able to get rid of that.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

I wonder if it is related to whether you're using the "Use High Quality Settings" on export.  Toggle it and test it between two different exports.  I honestly don't know what exactly the difference is between "Use Current Settings" and "Use High Quality Settings" but my guess is that the current settings will route in realtime through the selected audio device (and pick up any artefacts in the process), while the high quality will use the cpu only with no quality or polyphony compromises and won't render in realtime.

Last edited by tmyoung (16-04-2022 20:22)
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

If you hover over the "Use high quality settings" button it tells you what it does: use maximum polyphony and internal sample rate.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

The clipping happens to me on both high quality settings and current settings, it also happens on a Demo version of pianoteq standard as well as on my licensed pianoteq stage.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Carpet4 wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm rather new to pianoteq so hope my question makes sense.
When playing with my digital piano attached to my laptop or when replaying a recorded MIDI file, The sound is very clear and even with MIDI inputs of the maximum 127 I never hear any sound clipping (the pianoteq volume is set to default). However, when exporting to MP3/WAV file, there is alot of sound clipping on the recording. I tried playing with some settings including ticking the "Normalize output volume" which didn't help. Is this normal? and if not, what can be the explanation for the difference between the exported file and the realtime sound generated by pianoteq? Right now the only way for me to get rid of the clipping is by lowering the volume, but then the volume is too quiet.

Thanks in advance.

Do you have the limiter button (invisible!!! grrrrr!) enabled in both settings? It's that small "L" next to the green level display. Also, lowering the volume inside pianoteq and raising it somewhere else in the OS should mitigate/solve the issue.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

dv wrote:
Carpet4 wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm rather new to pianoteq so hope my question makes sense.
When playing with my digital piano attached to my laptop or when replaying a recorded MIDI file, The sound is very clear and even with MIDI inputs of the maximum 127 I never hear any sound clipping (the pianoteq volume is set to default). However, when exporting to MP3/WAV file, there is alot of sound clipping on the recording. I tried playing with some settings including ticking the "Normalize output volume" which didn't help. Is this normal? and if not, what can be the explanation for the difference between the exported file and the realtime sound generated by pianoteq? Right now the only way for me to get rid of the clipping is by lowering the volume, but then the volume is too quiet.

Thanks in advance.

Do you have the limiter button (invisible!!! grrrrr!) enabled in both settings? It's that small "L" next to the green level display. Also, lowering the volume inside pianoteq and raising it somewhere else in the OS should mitigate/solve the issue.

I do have the limiter enabled on both. regarding OS volume. does changing the volume on my computer have any effect on the output audio file?
There is one point I haven't mentioned that might serve as a hint, and that is the fact that for some reason the output audio file has a higher volume than the pianoteq program that generated it, dunno if that is how it should be or not though.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Carpet4 wrote:

I do have the limiter enabled on both. regarding OS volume. does changing the volume on my computer have any effect on the output audio file?
There is one point I haven't mentioned that might serve as a hint, and that is the fact that for some reason the output audio file has a higher volume than the pianoteq program that generated it, dunno if that is how it should be or not though.

I suspect that's the problem. Try lowering lowering pianoteq's volume and see if the output audio file has lower volume and is not clipped.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Carpet4 wrote:

...the output audio file has a higher volume than the pianoteq program that generated it, dunno if that is how it should be or not though.

What are you using to play back the audio file? I gather it's some software media player on the same computer...? Have you looked at the file in an audio editor to see if it's visibly clipped (i.e. consecutive samples at 0dB)? MP3 encoding can introduce some clipping if the signal goes over about -0.3 dBFS but you'd only need to lower it by that much to eliminate the problem and the reduction in loudness would not be noticeable. .WAV should be fine right up to 0dBFS unless Pianoteq's metering is not 'true peak'. I haven't yet tried exporting from the Standalone app.

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

brundlefly wrote:
Carpet4 wrote:

...the output audio file has a higher volume than the pianoteq program that generated it, dunno if that is how it should be or not though.

What are you using to play back the audio file? I gather it's some software media player on the same computer...? Have you looked at the file in an audio editor to see if it's visibly clipped (i.e. consecutive samples at 0dB)? MP3 encoding can introduce some clipping if the signal goes over about -0.3 dBFS but you'd only need to lower it by that much to eliminate the problem and the reduction in loudness would not be noticeable. .WAV should be fine right up to 0dBFS unless Pianoteq's metering is not 'true peak'. I haven't yet tried exporting from the Standalone app.

The clipping happens to me with a WAV file on both VLC and the built-in ubuntu video player.
As to your suggestion, I have opened the WAV file on Audacity. The sound only reaches around -1 dBFS at peak, and there is actually no clipping when playing it there. Now i am a bit confused, what should I gather from this? If I want to publish a piece of music, should I be worried that certain audio players won't play it right? what is the dBFS peak that I'm supposed to aim for?

Edit: Oh wow... actually the clipping only happened on VLC because I forgot the sound there at 125%, so it only really happens on the ubuntu default video player.

Last edited by Carpet4 (19-04-2022 06:43)

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Carpet4 wrote:

Edit: Oh wow... actually the clipping only happened on VLC because I forgot the sound there at 125%, so it only really happens on the ubuntu default video player.

Yes, I expected something like that. Exporting at -1dB should not be a problem, and you should not concern yourself with whether some listeners may use a player (or monitoring system) that mangles the playback. That's their problem. I can't comment on the suitability of ubuntu's default player, but just FYI, there's been some noise on the Interwebz lately about VLC delivering malware. You might want to look into it.

More important is whether the audio exceeds the loudness standards of the various streaming services, but a solo piano piece that hasn't been massively compressed is unlikely to exceed any of those standards no matter how high it's peaking.

Out of curiosity, I did a quick test exporting audio from the Standalone Pianoteq, and comparing it to audio rendered by the VSTi in Cakewalk, and the two were very close - enough to null significantly when one was phase-inverted. Interestingly, I found that Pianoteq does not play back exactly the same way twice, probably due to deliberately random elements in the modelling that are intended to help it feel more alive (or possibly unavoidable...?), so the renders from two different hosts are never going to be identical even with all other settings being equal. Incidentally I disabled the reverb and delay FX for testing, and the level was low enough that the limiter should not have been engaging.

P.S. Given the nearly non-existent metering in the Standalone Pianoteq, I would highly recommend running the VSTi in a DAW to get a better grip on levels and loudness for distribution purposes.

Last edited by brundlefly (19-04-2022 07:38)

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

brundlefly wrote:

P.S. Given the nearly non-existent metering in the Standalone Pianoteq, I would highly recommend running the VSTi in a DAW to get a better grip on levels and loudness for distribution purposes.

I am afraid my music production skills are too non-existent to try and engage in any form of sophisticated mastering
Anyway, thanks for solving the mystery, cheers!

Last edited by Carpet4 (19-04-2022 08:59)

Re: sound clipping when exporting to audio

Never too late to start. ;^)

But at least you can open the file in Audacity and check/adjust levels there.