Obnoxious Sustain Pedal Noise :D

Different devices emphasize different frequencies so there isn't a good single fix for all. I generally listen to the sound I want in headphones with flat response and work from there. I like to set the action noises depending on the perspective and the recording style I am going for so a fixed preset doesn't inspire me that much. Also the noise depends on your pedal movement: if you have an on-off switch you're going to input only values of 0 or 127 having therefore the noisest pedal (Imagine slapping back and forth a pedal in a piano) obviously this is unrealistic because most of the time you do it gently unless you need some particular effect but for that you need a progressive sustain pedal (so you have all the values between 0 and 127).

Have you calibrated it?

It's funny... yesterday I was listening to Peaceful Piano, the biggest solo piano list on Spotify, and almost every tune on it uses that same sampled piano (I think it's called Braunschweig Upright Piano from Imperfect Samples). It features a truly ridiculous amount of mechanical noises, not the least from the sustain pedal. It seems to be some kind of fad, like the "cool", must have sound. Kind of like TR808/909 sounds in hip hop.

Now I am not saying that the default pedal sound in Pianoteq is anywhere near as loud as the Braunschweig samples, but who knows, maybe it's in the Zeitgeist of virtual pianos...One person's feature that "ruins the recording of innocent folks" seems to  be the Holy Grail of neo-classical hipsters (lol).

Thank you navindra for this link. The sustain pedal noise is indeed too loud in that example. Do you think default settings were used? I just tried a couple of builtin presets without finding one with such a high level of sustain pedal noise...

Note that the Recording presets often have the sustain pedal noise set a bit lower than in the main preset. For example, it is set at 0 dB in NY Steinway Model D, but at -3 dB in NY Steinway D Classical Recording, -11 dB in NY Steinway D Studio Recording.

So that's the explanation: if you lower the velocity curve, the notes become quiter but not the sustain pedal noise, and consequently that pedal noise becomes relatively louder with respect to the notes, which gets particularly noticeable if you simultaneously increase the general volume to compensate for the lower volume coming from the velocity curve.

In other words, you have two components, both need to be adjusted consistently. Of course one could suggest that the velocity curve itself influences the sustain pedal noise, but this would be a bit strange as this noise itself has its own volume control in the Action section.

The conclusion here is that if you lower the velocity curve, you may want to lower the sustain pedal noise also.

Good observation. Then maybe that preset deserves -3 dB by default on the sustain pedal noise.

The spirit of Spike Jones lives on!

Perhaps we need another option in the voting: 'It depends on the preset'?

Most presets' noises seem generally right to me.

Those things mentioned (velocity curve, and Prelude) are exacerbated in navindras' case, since listening also on iPad means, lots more treble than anything else which means hearing lots of treble pedal swoosh, less meat.

My 2c.. If anything maybe just some recording presets could do with a fractional reduction of noises - but not sure the Preludes warrant that?

Preludes are player-like perspective, close up and with extra mic on bass for a charming balance, also boosted as Chopin87 mentions, quite nicely in ways to showcase a sort of "flagship timbre" of the instrument (it always worked that way for me when trying the pianos).. less pedal might make many new listeners hear it those rightly fulsome presets as less authentic if noises were reduced too much maybe. 

All this is always fascinating - but everything is about right for my purposes. Esp. since, the issue brought up does seem mostly that navindras' iPad and use of player presets (instead of 'recording-type' presets) are at the heart of it.

@Navindra BTW, if you generally like the sound of the example by MarieJ, and have the C. Bechstein DG, try out "Recording 2" preset - It has similar mic setup to the one MaryJ used, but I use this preset for especially clean piano a lot. Noises are low (-2 and -3dB), it's not too reverb rich nor raw - I love it esp. for rendering performances.

Yeah - totally I forget which nice old but too expensive sampled piano from a long time ago, caught my attention at the time because it was all about how 'close up' and full of character and piano action noises it was. Felt like you could hear the smoke filled room and it might have been inspiring. In hindsight, might have used it for one hip-hop loop, or 2 - since the noise the noise the noise was definitely impossible to unhear - and also impossible to lower or edit out in any way. Really glad to have Pianoteq's unique abilities to adjust for any fine details instead.

Main relevance of that, was the Pianoteq Prelude presets beat that piano out and sold me because they still had some realistic noise and great character yet ultimately more tasteful and editable

This is definitely a good point. I think 'recording' type presets are the ones which could suit just a fractional reduction in noise, if any

[Edit to add 'filled room']

Thanks for troubleshooting this and explaining all the factors at play! This explanation makes sense to me.

I think in my case, I was aiming for pianissimo, so even though I didn't modify the velocity curve, the sustain pedal noise sounded relatively louder.

Since Pianoteq has two (or more?) equalizers, one that feeds in to the model and one that is more traditional... I wonder if the same concept could apply to the velocity curve: If you check a box, changes to the velocity curve feed into the model, adjusting relative noises, etc... might be overkill given that no one else has any complaints about the noises though.

On my side, I haven't calibrated anything. I find the calibration tools too confusing or not really that useful but perhaps I need invest more in this?

My pedal has a full range response, but with my skill level I wouldn't know the difference... I don't use partial pedaling.

I'm very satisfied with the non-calibrated performance, and given my only complaint is the sustain pedal noise, I can just lower the DB on that for my individual case.

Yes, I understand. The same happens BTW on a real acoustic piano: if you only play in the ppp-p range, the relative loudness of the sustain pedal noise with respect to the notes will be higher too.

Nevertheless, thank you navindra for your observations, we will keep them in mind during the next update.