Keyboard Action - Which one?

Well, here's my 2 cents:
It's definitely worth getting the best action that you can afford - it's an investment in your long-term playing pleasure. Both the Roland pianos have the same action (PHA 50), so I think the RD-2000 would be overkill if you're going to use it mainly for Pianoteq. But if you go for the FP-90 be sure to budget for the package with the proper stand and 3-pedal array. With my FP-30 I had one of those x-frame metal stands for a while and it drove me nuts - wobble, wobble, wobble - you don't want that! I'm quite happy with my FP-30, it's very responsive with an excellent velocity range and half-pedalling capability. If I didn't have my acoustic upright I'd seriously consider upgrading to the FP-90 for its superior action. Roland also do some console pianos with PHA 50 action (for example HP 704), they may be worth a look.
I don't have much knowledge of the Kawai pianos but they are well respected and a lot of Pianoteq users do enjoy them. The only thing to note is that some forum members have reported problems with setting a good Pianoteq velocity curve for Kawai keyboards.
I hope this is helpful!

Hi DFWBach,

definitely best to try in real life all the keyboards you are interested in. Nothing is overkill when it comes to which one will furnish your musical life with the finest results. With your repertoire and experience, you'll definitely feel the differences.

I love my Kawai MP11 - so glad you're going to try its successor.

Mine has survived around 7yrs of solid playing so far and I find it ultimately the most expressive keyboard I've owned. Even if I only have it for 10yrs it will have paid off IMO. When I feel ready to look for something newer I'd certainly try the MP11 SE.

Of note BTW:

Velocity curve is not a problem that I've felt issue with. There are some posted here to try out in the Pianoteq "Keyboard Velocity Curves" page which are fabulous.

I will say, over time it gets easier to shape your curve the way you want it and you may find you enjoy different curves for differing styles/pianos/presets etc. It's probably true that most people just want to set 1 good curve (like one good piano) but I think you can certainly find that 1 you like (and more) no matter the keyboard. Noting Pianoteq handles velocity exceptionally well compared to other sampled pianos or example.. I think the curve + Pianoteq + MP11 SE is really not a prob.

Good luck!

Hello All,

Glad to be making my first post on the forum!  Love pianoteq, and am looking for some advice so I can get the best out of pianoteq.

I'm looking to update my 20 year old Clavinova CLP-950 that has served me well for 2 decades.  I really want to get a keyboard that transmits a piano's feel more faithfully than my Clavinova does and one that can capture good dynamic range (from pp to ff). So, the action is the MOST important part for me. 

I've done my research and looked through the forums already. I have the opportunity to try a few pianos within the next couple of days, but wanted to see what your experience has been with the following choices that I am currently researching:

Roland FP-90 (soon to be 90x, but will try it out tomorrow)
Roland RD-2000 (not sure if I can find one to test out, again stock issues)
Kawai VCP1 (will be able to try out this weekend)
Kawai MP11SE (can't find a place that has one in stock to try, or does any store even have one at the moment to ship)

My understanding is that the two stage pianos have slightly better actions.  But are the actions that much better to justify that much of a price increase?  I will admit that the stage pianos are a little bit over my budget, but my Clavinova has lasted me 20 years, and I'd rather spend a little more money now in order to get something that will last another 20 years. ($500 or $700 more is not that much over 20 years)

I am not a professional pianist, but am a skilled amateur who has been playing piano since I was 6, and play anything from Albéniz, Bach, Brahms all the way to Rachmaninov and Scarlatti, with some modern stuff such as Philip Glass and Yann Tiersen.  So are the stage pianos overkill, since I'm not a professional?

Just curious to hear what people's thoughts are.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

DFWBach wrote:

Hello All,

Glad to be making my first post on the forum!  Love pianoteq, and am looking for some advice so I can get the best out of pianoteq.

I'm looking to update my 20 year old Clavinova CLP-950 that has served me well for 2 decades.  I really want to get a keyboard that transmits a piano's feel more faithfully than my Clavinova does and one that can capture good dynamic range (from pp to ff). So, the action is the MOST important part for me. 

I've done my research and looked through the forums already. I have the opportunity to try a few pianos within the next couple of days, but wanted to see what your experience has been with the following choices that I am currently researching:

Roland FP-90 (soon to be 90x, but will try it out tomorrow)
Roland RD-2000 (not sure if I can find one to test out, again stock issues)
Kawai VCP1 (will be able to try out this weekend)
Kawai MP11SE (can't find a place that has one in stock to try, or does any store even have one at the moment to ship)

My understanding is that the two stage pianos have slightly better actions.  But are the actions that much better to justify that much of a price increase?  I will admit that the stage pianos are a little bit over my budget, but my Clavinova has lasted me 20 years, and I'd rather spend a little more money now in order to get something that will last another 20 years. ($500 or $700 more is not that much over 20 years)

I am not a professional pianist, but am a skilled amateur who has been playing piano since I was 6, and play anything from Albéniz, Bach, Brahms all the way to Rachmaninov and Scarlatti, with some modern stuff such as Philip Glass and Yann Tiersen.  So are the stage pianos overkill, since I'm not a professional?

Just curious to hear what people's thoughts are.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

A current line up of Clavinova digital pianos (CLP- 785, CLP- 775, CLP-745, CLP-735, and CLP- 795GP) seems conspicuously absent from your list (that is) of likely replacement keyboard contenders to your old Clavinova model.  Although Yamaha has long developed its proprietary MIDI XP format used in the Disklavier Pro series, it apparently has just dropped it in favor of MIDI High Resolution Velocity Prefix control change number eighty-eight (88) now supported within the current Clavinova line.

So, now whether or not higher resolutions potentially affect any keyboard feel and leaves one certainly with a sense of greater detail in smoother key response that’s a lot more responsive and giving to expressivity when you’re depressing a digital piano key of a Clavinova, all that has yet to become fully explored er debated at this forum.

People forum members still have reached no way a total consensus, if in fact a need even for it —concerning high resolution MIDI— actually exists.  You just may want to review a forum discussion of that for yourself (before you hastily draw any conclusion) on how higher resolutions offered by Yamaha Clavinova might today truly change the listener’s enjoyment just from the line’s newly added benefits.  Which are ways specifically it can communicate fully with PIANOTEQ and to ultimately a listener audience, no matter small.  That is precisely where other boards present some shortcomings.

If you're at all interested, adult discussions are ongoing under the following two (2) topics shown (below) and of course others as well:

1. Best controller recommendations (under $1000)

2. High Resolution MIDI Velocity (CC#88)

If you’re looking for something portable, I don’t think you can go wrong with either the VPC1 or the MP11SE... They are pretty much the best actions in the business (stage piano-wise).

However, if you’re looking to update your Clavinova for a new cabinet piano, I simply must put in a good word for the Casio Grand Hybrid. I have a GP300 paired with Pianoteq and it is simply glorious.

I work with pianos every day - acoustic and digital - and I truly believe that this pairing is significantly better than out of the box solutions from Yamaha and Kawai (Clavinova and Concert Artist).

All of the Casio GP series have the same action, so if you can find a GP300, or 310 on the cheap then you’re laughing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w4isjKSl8...ture=share

A beautiful rendition of the piece played on a Yamaha P515

I have the P515 and it has a beautiful action. Check out the reviews on this model. Admittedly the midi implementation is not as Casio's Hybrid Pianos (in my humble opinion Casio generally has the best midi implementation).

However you are able to adjust the response using a midi filter or within Pianoteq's velocity pane.

Hope this helps,

Warmest regards,

Chris

I've had my MP11 more than 5yrs, closer to 8yrs now. If I paid that extra $1K over 8yrs it's ~$2.40 per week or $10mnth).

I think it'll last more than another few years. If you weighed it up - 8 yrs of playing to your levels (and being able to improve without finding the action falling behind your progress), it's cheaper than a coffee per week for that.

Then again, that's what I'd probably say if I was selling these too

1k in a single chunk seems a lot harder to justify - but in the past I've churned keyboards and ended up spending more too. (have grown out of 1 which was pretty expensive too). We all waste money/time on some poor choices - but we can't always know which is best but we try combining all info to get something both useful and economical. For my situation, cannot complain about the MP11 on those criteria.

If not sure - beyond that, maybe take a cool-off period - would be silly to advise 'just buy it' if you aren't 100% sure the MP11 SE is worth the stretch

Cheers DFWBach. BTW - I don't think you can go too far wrong with either.

I come from the real world of acoustic instruments and own a couple of clavichords, one of which is my avatar here, a small Italian virginal, and a grand piano in addition to my Roland LX-17. The Roland, by the way, is a replacement for an ancient, nearly 20-year-old Technics SX/PX 980.

My biggest complaint about digital instruments is their shallow key depth. I find myself hitting bottom too soon causing fatigue and stiffness. By far, Roland has the best action I could find after trying many, many brands of digital instruments. I find I can play for quite some time on my Roland, just as long as I can on my Vogel 177T grand, without suffering from fatigue as I did on the Technics and other brands I tried.

I'm sure other factors come into play here as well including the volume set for the piano, but overall, the Roland causes the least amount of fatigue for me out of many digital instruments I've played. This is definitely something you should consider as well because a good digital piano isn't something you replace every couple of years. This is something you want to enjoy playing without any discomfort and perhaps joint damage to your hands.

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Have any particular reason to favor the MP11SE over the RD-2000?

Yes, unfortunately, I can get a great deal on the Kawai.  I know not everything comes down to money, but the Kawai seems to fit the bill both in my playing and with my wallet

However, a friend of mine plays it and loves it, and raves about it.  I think I'm in world spoiled by riches and don't think I would go wrong with either one.

Thanks!

jcitron wrote:

DFWBach wrote:

Yes, unfortunately, I can get a great deal on the Kawai.  I know not everything comes down to money, but the Kawai seems to fit the bill both in my playing and with my wallet

However, a friend of mine plays it and loves it, and raves about it.  I think I'm in world spoiled by riches and don't think I would go wrong with either one.

Thanks!

Congratulations on your choice. I wish you many years of enjoyment.

Thank You for the kind words.  I, like everyone else, am now waiting for the keyboard to arrive.  They said 6 weeks...we shall see!