Topic: A more 3D reverb using layers

While Pianoteq’s built-in convolution reverb is perfectly adequate for low to medium intensity in a player situation, I always found it not quite satisfactory in a listening situation where you want to feel you are in a concert hall listening to a performance.

Adding more reverb with the Mix slider always to my ears muddy the sound and also alters the piano tone.

I found a way using three layers to simulate the bouncing sound inside an empty concert hall (quite appropriate these days!) so it is possible to choose a position far or near the instrument without changing its tone.

Of course this is of no interest if all you want is a convincing piano in front of you as you play, but I feel the large number of fine classical performances from the Minnesota competition is worthy of this effort if you like listening to them as rendered by a Pianoteq instrument.

There are surely external reverbs and spatialization that can be used for this purpose, but I give a technique using only Pianoteq.

Here is a short demo of the Layer simulating someone coming from the back of an empty hall, moving toward the piano (NY Steinway) and going back again:


https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...20hall.mp3


Here is the same thing by just moving the Mix slider in a single occurence of a NY Steinway Classical Recording preset:


https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...%20Mix.mp3


The sound is quite muddy and the impression is that the piano stays near, the hall sound is simply superimposed.

This demo may sound gimmicky of course, but I think the fxp gives the ability to select a prefered position for listening easily by moving the slider of the first layer from 0 to 100.

This technique can be easily applied to other instruments by using the new parameter copy/paste function for transporting another instruments and its parameters except Effects and Output Settings on each of the three layers to obtain the same result.

Here is the Layer fxp with the first one being dry and almost mono while the other two use  large delays and distant mics to simulate the hall:


https://forum.modartt.com/file/5pxrk587


This sounds best with headphones (not with binaural setting).

Re: A more 3D reverb using layers

This is an excellent demo, showing the exciting possibilities of layering. One of the reasons I sometimes got frustrated with the reverb in the 'old' Pianoteq was because of that trap with the mix level - too much and it sounded muddy, too little and it just sounded dull. Some of the presets in v6 nearly drove me to distraction with a strong 'ka-boomph' rebound effect and I found it hard to adjust it to taste without messing everything up. Now, thankfully, the 'ka-boomph' is gone or much reduced. And layering opens up a world of potential, I think.

Re: A more 3D reverb using layers

Glad you liked it! The only drawback is a greater use of CPU because three instances of the Pianoteq engine are running and the polyphony increases threefold so the limit you set can be bypassed at times. For instance if you set the limit to 256 and the piece asks for 100 you exceed the limit and may (or may not) get some overload. The limit is enforced for one instance of the engine it seems...What works best is one of the Auto settings I think.

Fortunately, a lot of optimization was done with more threading so that this preset uses all 8 cores of my MacPro quite evenly.

Last edited by Gilles (16-11-2020 16:58)

Re: A more 3D reverb using layers

Ah yes, it's worth being aware of the extra CPU load and polyphony limit. I might need to exercise some restraint, working on my i5 laptop!