Topic by ClosetMusician

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Topic: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Hey everyone,

I created a new PianoTeq / Midi-Keyboard set-up with a new mini/onboard computer "Odroid H2". I couldn't be happier. I found a lot of posts with setups including Raspberry Pis, but couldn't find a post for the more beefy Odroid H2. I'd like to share:

Kawai VPC1 + PianoTeq 6 Stage

Hardware:
- Odroid H2 (+ Samsung 970 M.2 NVM drive + Crucial 2x8GB RAM)
RAM and hard-drive size are bit excessive and can be chosen smaller.

- Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB Audio interface
Not strictly needed for playing only with headphones, for which the Odroid has a direct output. However, the physical dial for headphone volume adjustment is useful.

I set everything up so that I only have to start the Odroid H2 with a press on the power button. The Odroid boots up into Ubuntu 18.04 (10-20) seconds, and using a script, automatically starts PianoTeq. Upon a boot-up a timer is started that automatically shuts down the device after 1 hour. This way I do not need Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse dangling around the Odroid for my normal practice. The only function for which I routinely have to use the GUI interface is the metronome, which I mapped (using PianoTeq) to the unused (by me) Soft pedal. Not having direct input to PianoTeq/Ubuntu, I adjust headphone volume with the audio interface, but it could also be mapped to midi control afaik.

The installation process for Ubuntu 18.04 was smooth and eventless, as if it were a normal laptop. I followed the PianoTeq readme, and gave the default user all the audio privileges it needs. I did not adjust the CPU throttling governor, and left it on 'ondemand', which seemed sufficient.

PianoTeq 6 is running with 192 samples (4.4ms delay), at 44kHz in 48 tone polyphony, and I never hear any crackling. The heat sink's temperature does not seem to rise above 35C. The Odroid H2 seems capable of handling this perfectly fine without effort.

Some more details: The Odroid currently has only three cables attached to it.
- Power
- USB Midi connection to Kawai VPC1. The Kawai VPC1 gets it's power through there, and is not itself powered. I found that the Odroid provides enough power for the VPC1, but only (and here's the weird part:) through the upper right USB 3.0 port.
- USB connection to Audio Interface. I found that it is necessary to attach the Audio Interface to a separate USB bus (here I use the upper USB 2.0 port, on left), because when it's on the same slot as the VPC1 I heard some delay. The power for the Audio interface is also provided by the Odroid H2.

I uploaded a picture of the Odroid with 3D printed case as my avatar.

PianoTeq is started once the XServer (Gnome) is up and running with

<CODE>
sudo shutdown -P +65
nice -n -10 ./my_pianoteq_binary_location --multicore max
</CODE>

Note 1:  that I do not use a headless setup, because the metronome wouldn't work with it. However, I do not have a monitor attached. It seems that I have to have the XServer + PianoTeq GUI running (even if unused) to use the metronome.

Note 2: The first command will boot down the machine automatically after 65 minutes.

I am very happy with this setup, and can fully recommend it.

Question?

I am happy to walk someone through that setup if they want to copy it.

Last edited by ClosetMusician (19-03-2020 18:26)

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

ClosetMusician wrote:

Hey everyone,
I created a new PianoTeq/Midikeyboard set-up with a new mini/onboard computer "Odroid H2". I couldn't be happier. I found a lot of posts with setups including Raspberry Pis, but couldn't find a post for the more beefy Odroid H2. I'd like to share:

This will be very interesting to investigate. Thank you very much for posting this topic and information.

--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Reply by hembreed

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Does your unit use the A15 or A7 cpu

Reply by ClosetMusician

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

hembreed wrote:

Does your unit use the A15 or A7 cpu

These seem to be ARM's.

Odroid H2 uses Intel. Spec sheet says: Intel Celeron J4105 Processor (14nm Quad-Core, up to 2.3GHz, TDP 10W), 4MB L2 Cache, UHD Graphics 600 (Gen 9.5)

Since it's a 64bit CPU you can run any modern software on it.

Last edited by ClosetMusician (19-03-2020 22:10)

Reply by Mk4UmHa

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Do you have JACK audio running for the MIDI?

Reply by MrRoland

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Interesting board.
What performance index do you get?

Reply by ClosetMusician

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

MrRoland wrote:

Interesting board.
What performance index do you get?

Interface says 19...31 when playing the demo blues song. CPU freq stays around 1.4Ghz (with max at 2.4 Ghz)

If disable dynamic CPU throttling, and set to max 2.4 Ghz, I get a performance index of constant 37.

Last edited by ClosetMusician (20-03-2020 01:00)

Reply by ClosetMusician

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Mk4UmHa wrote:

Do you have JACK audio running for the MIDI?

No, standard was set to ALSA. It worked. I never changed it.

Reply by groovy

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

ClosetMusician wrote:

If disable dynamic CPU throttling, and set to max 2.4 Ghz, I get a performance index of constant 37.

Interesting. The same index I had on an Intel N4200 based fanless laptop:

https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...19#p961319

Reply by alessandro

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

groovy wrote:
ClosetMusician wrote:

If disable dynamic CPU throttling, and set to max 2.4 Ghz, I get a performance index of constant 37.

Interesting. The same index I had on an Intel N4200 based fanless laptop:

https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...19#p961319

I don't understand why I get a significantly higher performance index with a CPU that other benchmarks say it should be comparable (or worse) than these CPUs.
My CPU is an i3-3217U, running in an old Vaio Duo 11 ultrabook.

If I disable CPU throttling, the performance index is a constant 65. I never disable throttling when playing because there's no overload anyway (the performance index varies a lot in this case, but the sound remains perfect).

The case has a fan, but it runs so slow (thanks to throttling) that it is almost inaudible. Unfortunately the monitor is almost broken, so I was looking for equally silent alternatives with a touchscreen, like the Teclast X4, but these performance results for the CPU are very disappointing.

I use the low-latency linux kernel, could that be the reason for this huge difference?

Last edited by alessandro (08-07-2020 09:45)

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Reply by Groove On

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

alessandro wrote:

... don't understand why I get a significantly higher performance index with a CPU that other benchmarks say it should be comparable (or worse) than these CPUs. My CPU is an i3-3217U ...

Per online benchmarks your i3-3217U has lower memory latency, a “smart cache” for the CPU and supports hyper-threading vs. the Celeron J4105.

But this is all good news. Sounds like Pianoteq is running decently on these two older & entry level CPUs. The J4105 is a 3-year old budget CPU, and the 3217U is a 3rd gen. mobile CPU!

Last edited by Groove On (15-07-2020 03:32)

Reply by Groove On

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

ClosetMusician wrote:

... PianoTeq 6 is running with 192 samples (4.4ms delay), at 44kHz in 48 tone polyphony, and I never hear any crackling Question?

Thank you for posting your results. Your setup is very encouraging!


Question
If you set Pianoteq to 48kHz / 48kHz, polyphony Auto-Optimistic, what sample rate gives you acceptable performance?

Last edited by Groove On (16-07-2020 09:45)

Reply by alessandro

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Groove On wrote:

Per online benchmarks your i3-3217U has lower memory latency, a “smart cache” for the CPU and supports hyper-threading vs. the Celeron J4105.

You're right. According to this benchmark, the two CPUs differ greatly on memory latency and raw computing speed.

Interestingly enough, the difference in Pianoteq performance (+75%) is almost exactly the difference in memory latency score (+73%), completely dismissing the difference in single (-36%) and multi core (-95%!!!) speed.

I wonder if this could be generalized to other CPUs to say that for Pianoteq, a lower memory latency has a significantly higher impact on performance than raw computing speed?

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Reply by ClosetMusician

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

Groove On wrote:

If you set Pianoteq to 48kHz / 48kHz, polyphony Auto-Optimistic, what sample rate gives you acceptable performance?

With 48 kHz sample rate / internal sample rate, auto optimistic polyphony, I hear no crackling at and above an audio buffer size of 192 samples (4.0 ms delay) on the blues demo, when pressing the sustain pedal constantly.

Reply by Groove On

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

ClosetMusician wrote:
Groove On wrote:

If you set Pianoteq to 48kHz / 48kHz, polyphony Auto-Optimistic, what sample rate gives you acceptable performance?

With 48 kHz sample rate / internal sample rate, auto optimistic polyphony, I hear no crackling at and above an audio buffer size of 192 samples (4.0 ms delay) on the blues demo, when pressing the sustain pedal constantly.

That is excellent news! It sounds like the Odroid H2 has the horsepower to run Pianoteq at the standard out-of-the-box default settings - all in a tiny package. What Performance Index number are you getting?

Reply by groovy

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Re: Kawai VPC1 + Odriod H2 = Perfect!

alessandro wrote:

I wonder if this could be generalized to other CPUs to say that for Pianoteq, a lower memory latency has a significantly higher impact on performance than raw computing speed?

Interesting hypothesis.

Just another benchmark comparison of the Odroid's Celeron J4105 with the Pentium N4200.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I...8vsm444211

The J4105 is newer and slightly better in most of the benchmarks.

But the Avg. Memory Latency is on par (43.5 Pts vs. 42.9 Pts).

PTQ's performance index is 37 for both CPU in turbo mode, as mentioned a few posts above.

But nobody knows, how PTQ's performance index is calculated, so it is not more than another snapshot of your hypothesis.

PS: Could be interesting, if changing a RAM-module with a different CAS-latency has influence on Pianoteq's performance index.

Last edited by groovy (26-07-2020 14:14)