Ra wrote:Oh, another word about sample rates, somebody confuses them
That is what I referred to as "false" - I believes ya knows that - don't ya buddy?
In the past I posted about dithering. For one example, here's what Ra said in one thread:
Ra wrote:Have just done some close examinations from a few of Qexl's points. They to me are excellent!
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His own words show, I brought these ideas to him.
Link to that quoted thread here.
Here's a pertinent part where I informed him of these notions around dithering.
Qexl wrote:Then when exporting (down) to 24 bit rate and 48kHz sample rate which would likely invoke some choice about dithering, no dithering and/or normalization which might need a few changes for best results.
At that time, I was happy to have shared this knowledge which might help him in his ongoing learning.
If I ignore the insult and all, here's more info..
I recommend to watch the whole video posted by Chopin87 at top.. at around, or maybe before minute 10, or from the start really, it's worth it.. he's absolutely nailing a presentation of the way that working with frequencies in a DAW is different at the different sample rates.
All I tried to add to the understanding here is that, depending on output which might include dithering options, a downsampled 44.1kHz version of something which was once heard at 192kHz could be very different because of all the technical choices during downsampling.. so comparisons are quite often not 1:1 - just an observation.
Ra wrote:Anybody has an idea whether or not inharmonicity is affected when you go from 44.1kHz sample rates just to 48kHz rates? That as you listen might account for differences perceived as prevalent in your auditory system
Absolutley related things (inharmonicity being high frequency related) - like I suggest Ra, go to that video, and see how the demo with sine waves sounds (he shows these things beautifully and it's why I mentioned 'synths' lot of high freq's. - the simple wav forms coupled with these artifices esp. in high frequencies, can be powerful components in your sound design, more than just layering a track over another.. these things can be complex quilts woven quite intricately - and playing with the technical areas of it can lead to some artistic satisfaction - all I'm trying to gift people with here).. any high frequencies exactly relate to my earlier postings. Inharmonicity may show up in high frequencies and be subject to some intermodulative processing.
Like scherbakov.al mentioned, you may hear a sweeter 'tail' to chords etc. at 192 - one reason being exactly what I was hoping to express.. these 'artifacts' of intermodulation can make 'pure' waves noisy ast lower sample rates.. again it's both good and bad though.. and I pointed out, I like 48.. and Chopin87's video made my day - I didn't know before this, that 48 has such a nice technical situation which applies to my desires.
So, working on piano at 192 is good.. I hinted at that earlier..
Qexl wrote:pertinent to me with some synth things but can be applied to thinking about 192 (or up-sampled FX) for piano.
With different sample rates in the DAW, all kinds of frequency effects run rampant esp. with effects on top. It may be different for given instruments, effects, the genre - but your choices can help or hurt the outcome.
You choose the rates you want to work in, partly because of what you want to either keep, or destroy in the working digital signal. You can create 'tape' vibe with some simple destructive digital planning and I love going 'glitch' to degrees.
Next, you mix - whatever other production you want to apply (again, you can choose certain compression types, which variously help to keep or destroy values in the signal)..
Next, if you want to output to a consumer sample rate 48 for example, you might apply at that last stage, any given type of dithering, or not.
In the case of keeping a cleaner output to a non-lossy format (like flac or WAV) - you may avoid dithering - but a lot of the time, the process of downsampling really does leave some harsh areas, masking problems - so. This is one reason dithering is done.. to help the human ear - the translation downward is pertinent to what we hear.
If outputting to and MP3, the MP3 format's own compression routines may cause some negative consequences for the downsampling too.. so you may not want to dither. Again, variables incl. different music types, what rates it was 'worked on' and more, just an example.
I hope you understand I'm trying pretty hard (over a long time line) to give information you can take onboard.. not trying to just "say stuff" - and please quit with the insinuations OK?
In the end.. it does depend on hearing the same thing on the same equipment producing the same level of authenticity to the signal, otherwise we can be comparing apples to oranges - just hoping to shine that light on it.
Sincerely - just hoping this helps people - not trying to 'win' stupid prizes mmmmkay
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments) - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors