Topic: About the guitar instrument ?

What is the real use case for classical guitar modelling ? A grand piano is very expensive, is very noisy  and requires a lot of space , therefore the drivers for software emulation are multiple , moreover the interaction between the pianist is not an issue as the only parameters that matter are final velocity of the key and how long the key is depressed. When it comes to guitar , why not buy the real thing ? It is not expensive , more portable than any midi keyboard and even an entry level acoustic guitar will sound more realistic .
One could answer that you need to model multiple instruments if you want to be in the orchestration (from trio, quartets, full orchestra) fair enough , but is the roadmap for pianoteq ? Unclear to me and stated clearly by Pianoteq . Obviously, from a mathematical standpoint,  I have to say bravo .

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

joannchr wrote:

What is the real use case for classical guitar modelling ? A grand piano is very expensive, is very noisy  and requires a lot of space , therefore the drivers for software emulation are multiple , moreover the interaction between the pianist is not an issue as the only parameters that matter are final velocity of the key and how long the key is depressed. When it comes to guitar , why not buy the real thing ? It is not expensive , more portable than any midi keyboard and even an entry level acoustic guitar will sound more realistic .
One could answer that you need to model multiple instruments if you want to be in the orchestration (from trio, quartets, full orchestra) fair enough , but is the roadmap for pianoteq ? Unclear to me and stated clearly by Pianoteq . Obviously, from a mathematical standpoint,  I have to say bravo .

A thread on this exists already:
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9914

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

Sorry for bumping the thread! Classical guitar modeling can be super useful for a bunch of things! If you're a music producer, it lets you create those beautiful nylon-string sounds without needing the actual guitar. And if you're learning or practicing, it's like having a virtual teacher – perfect for late-night jam sessions that won't disturb the neighbors! Speaking of which, I'm still at the beginning of learning and just getting the hang of chords. Recently, I've been focusing on mastering that tricky bb chord https://staytunedguitar.com/guitar-chords-b-flat . But I've found that using a real guitar for this has been a game-changer. There's something about the tactile experience that helps me learn faster and more efficiently.

Last edited by phillipcarroll (17-08-2023 10:18)

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

phillipcarroll wrote:

Sorry for bumping the thread! Classical guitar modeling can be super useful for a bunch of things! If you're a music producer, it lets you create those beautiful nylon-string sounds without needing the actual guitar. And if you're learning or practicing, it's like having a virtual teacher – perfect for late-night jam sessions that won't disturb the neighbors! Speaking of which, I'm still at the beginning of learning and just getting the hang of chords. Recently, I've been focusing on mastering that tricky bb chord https://staytunedguitar.com/guitar-chords-b-flat . But I've found that using a real guitar for this has been a game-changer. There's something about the tactile experience that helps me learn faster and more efficiently.

using the modelling as a practice backtrack is a good case actually.

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

Most real acoustic guitars are far more expensive than this plugin pack!
Also I do not believe this is likely to replace a real acoustic guitarist on a professional performance precisely because they are so cheap and abundant - and of course it will sound more real.

You can find virtual instruments for all kinds of low cost instruments that are (relatively speaking) quite easy to record too - even so there are a bucket load of benefits!

Convenience - no maintenance, no tuning, midi editing, consider the abilities of musician to adapt to any given instrument. Removing the hassles of a loud unappealing sound of an amateur fumbling on any given acoustic instrument - all designed to fill a large space with sound!
That's not forgetting physical space for the instrument.

Mainly learning to play the instrument, recording the instrument with additional microphones, room treatment to record acoustic instruments in a real space, buying the instrument, and additional guitar rack or stand and so on.

That said if the justification was solely based on the cost of hardware you might have a point.  You could probably buy a half decent sounding acoustic guitar for under £100 whilst the models of acoustic grand pianos can be a thousand times that and more.

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

Yes indeed, the Pianoteq guitar is a boon to somebody like me. I love classical guitar and do actually own one, but as for trying to play the darn thing to a decent standard, well I'm just hopeless. At least with the Pianoteq guitar I do stand a fighting chance of playing something that actually sounds good!

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

Key Fumbler wrote:

Most real acoustic guitars are far more expensive than this plugin pack!
Also I do not believe this is likely to replace a real acoustic guitarist on a professional performance precisely because they are so cheap and abundant - and of course it will sound more real.

You can find virtual instruments for all kinds of low cost instruments that are (relatively speaking) quite easy to record too - even so there are a bucket load of benefits!

Convenience - no maintenance, no tuning, midi editing, consider the abilities of musician to adapt to any given instrument. Removing the hassles of a loud unappealing sound of an amateur fumbling on any given acoustic instrument - all designed to fill a large space with sound!
That's not forgetting physical space for the instrument.

Mainly learning to play the instrument, recording the instrument with additional microphones, room treatment to record acoustic instruments in a real space, buying the instrument, and additional guitar rack or stand and so on.

That said if the justification was solely based on the cost of hardware you might have a point.  You could probably buy a half decent sounding acoustic guitar for under £100 whilst the models of acoustic grand pianos can be a thousand times that and more.

  “ Most real acoustic guitars are far more expensive than this plugin pack!” a good fg800 Yamaha costs 250$ and will be cheaper that the combo pianoteq+ pc+ external speakers .

“ Mainly learning to play the instrument, ” actually you won’t learn how to play the instrument . One of the  fundamental difference between guitar & piano is that on a guitar the same note can be produced  using different strings and changing the fret  fingers position whereby on a piano a given note can only be played by hitting a specific key .  So there is no way you can develop guitar technique by using it.  Now as one member posted a good case would be to use pianoteq as a back track so you can play in parallel with an acoustic guitar as little bit like a teacher .
Basically to me the only valid use case is this one and the ability to produce guitar sounds in a mix when you only know how to play the piano . Most guitarists who haven’t touch a piano will struggle produce a quality midi file using a keyboard as a midi input device in the same way any pianist with no guitar background would struggle if the input devices were strings on a fret.

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

joannchr wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:

Most real acoustic guitars are far more expensive than this plugin pack!
Also I do not believe this is likely to replace a real acoustic guitarist on a professional performance precisely because they are so cheap and abundant - and of course it will sound more real.

You can find virtual instruments for all kinds of low cost instruments that are (relatively speaking) quite easy to record too - even so there are a bucket load of benefits!

Convenience - no maintenance, no tuning, midi editing, consider the abilities of musician to adapt to any given instrument. Removing the hassles of a loud unappealing sound of an amateur fumbling on any given acoustic instrument - all designed to fill a large space with sound!
That's not forgetting physical space for the instrument.

Mainly learning to play the instrument, recording the instrument with additional microphones, room treatment to record acoustic instruments in a real space, buying the instrument, and additional guitar rack or stand and so on.

That said if the justification was solely based on the cost of hardware you might have a point.  You could probably buy a half decent sounding acoustic guitar for under £100 whilst the models of acoustic grand pianos can be a thousand times that and more.

  “ Most real acoustic guitars are far more expensive than this plugin pack!” a good fg800 Yamaha costs 250$ and will be cheaper that the combo pianoteq+ pc+ external speakers .

“ Mainly learning to play the instrument, ” actually you won’t learn how to play the instrument . One of the  fundamental difference between guitar & piano is that on a guitar the same note can be produced  using different strings and changing the fret  fingers position whereby on a piano a given note can only be played by hitting a specific key .  So there is no way you can develop guitar technique by using it.  Now as one member posted a good case would be to use pianoteq as a back track so you can play in parallel with an acoustic guitar as little bit like a teacher .
Basically to me the only valid use case is this one and the ability to produce guitar sounds in a mix when you only know how to play the piano . Most guitarists who haven’t touch a piano will struggle produce a quality midi file using a keyboard as a midi input device in the same way any pianist with no guitar background would struggle if the input devices were strings on a fret.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear?
Actually we are in agreement.
When I said "Mainly learning the instrument" I was referring to the fact that if you want real acoustic guitars on your recording you would have to learn an additional instrument in the guitar which was one of the factors for the naysayers to consider when poo pooing this virtual instrument version.
Of course I'm not under the impression that this virtual guitar played on a piano keyboard can help with playing an actual guitar!

Re: About the guitar instrument ?

Oh, I should have spelled that poo poo with a h, otherwise we get into a world of s***!

https://youtu.be/QeF1JO7Ki8E

Never ignore a pooh pooing!

Last edited by Key Fumbler (20-08-2023 14:40)