Topic by MartinGr

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Topic: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

Today my DP-10 arrived - and I thought it would be a good solution for my SL88 Grand.

But it doesn't feel very organic. Sometimes I have pedaled notes, where they shouldn't be, and sometimes the pedal seems too short. In the midi monitor, I see it is sending a lot of values. (Maybe even too much?) And the range is only between 0 and around 105. The visual pedal in Pianoteq doesn't look very smooth as well.
Is there a way to optimize it?
Or do I need the expensive three-pedal combination from Studiologic?

Sometimes it even happends, that it sends values around 100, although it is released...

Edit: found it: it's defect. The plastic, which is mounted on the poti is not following the pedal, but gets stuck sometimes.
 
Regards
Martin

Last edited by MartinGr (11-02-2021 23:09)

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

You may need to email hesitz, who has the same model or FP-10.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (11-02-2021 23:43)
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Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

MartinGr wrote:

Today my DP-10 arrived - and I thought it would be a good solution for my SL88 Grand.

But it doesn't feel very organic. Sometimes I have pedaled notes, where they shouldn't be, and sometimes the pedal seems too short. In the midi monitor, I see it is sending a lot of values. (Maybe even too much?) And the range is only between 0 and around 105. The visual pedal in Pianoteq doesn't look very smooth as well.
Is there a way to optimize it?
Or do I need the expensive three-pedal combination from Studiologic?

Sometimes it even happends, that it sends values around 100, although it is released...

Edit: found it: it's defect. The plastic, which is mounted on the poti is not following the pedal, but gets stuck sometimes.
 
Regards
Martin

You can adjust the performance curve of your DP-10 in the "PEDAL" window available in the Pianoteq interface, on the left, in the same window that adjusts the speed curve, clicking on the upper tab until the option "PEDAL" appears.
This setting allows you to set the minimum and maximum limits for the sustain pedal to operate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1axP2qx...sp=sharing

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by MartinGr

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:
MartinGr wrote:

Today my DP-10 arrived - and I thought it would be a good solution for my SL88 Grand.

But it doesn't feel very organic. Sometimes I have pedaled notes, where they shouldn't be, and sometimes the pedal seems too short. In the midi monitor, I see it is sending a lot of values. (Maybe even too much?) And the range is only between 0 and around 105. The visual pedal in Pianoteq doesn't look very smooth as well.
Is there a way to optimize it?
Or do I need the expensive three-pedal combination from Studiologic?

Sometimes it even happends, that it sends values around 100, although it is released...

Edit: found it: it's defect. The plastic, which is mounted on the poti is not following the pedal, but gets stuck sometimes.
 
Regards
Martin

You can adjust the performance curve of your DP-10 in the "PEDAL" window available in the Pianoteq interface, on the left, in the same window that adjusts the speed curve, clicking on the upper tab until the option "PEDAL" appears.
This setting allows you to set the minimum and maximum limits for the sustain pedal to operate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1axP2qx...sp=sharing

Oh thank you, I should have thought of that!
And it doesn't matter that it sends so many values? The SL88 doesn't seem to make any smoothing...
(The little defect with the sticking release might be easy to repair)

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

MartinGr wrote:

doesn't matter that it sends so many values?

Should be OK sending lots of values. My pedal does that too but never seems to cause a glitch. Pianoteq seems to do pretty well to smooth that all out.

Def. experiment with the pedal curve (great suggestion @Professor Leandro Duarte!).

Some pianos and presets, I really like with a fairly steep slope, so there's not so much resonance between pedaling/UN-pedalling that sustain.

Glad you can fix the sticky aspect tho - I recently got that again but usually just a quick dust removal does the trick.

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Reply by MartinGr

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

Qexl wrote:
MartinGr wrote:

doesn't matter that it sends so many values?

Should be OK sending lots of values. My pedal does that too but never seems to cause a glitch. Pianoteq seems to do pretty well to smooth that all out.

Def. experiment with the pedal curve (great suggestion @Professor Leandro Duarte!).

Some pianos and presets, I really like with a fairly steep slope, so there's not so much resonance between pedaling/UN-pedalling that sustain.

Glad you can fix the sticky aspect tho - I recently got that again but usually just a quick dust removal does the trick.

Yes, that was easy. There is a flat spring, that presses a plastic part on the potentiometer axis towards the metal pedal. And it often got stuck on an edge of the plastic, when pressed down. After unscrewing and screwing again, it seems to work fine Maybe silicon spray would help, too.

I've asked, because the silent piano on my Bechstein suddenly delayed notes at random. I found out that the on/off sensor of the pedal was defect and sended too many impulses.
But if Pianoteq can handle that, I'm fine.

I've tried it with my Arturia keyboard, and the midi output looked nicer (and went up to 127). So it seems as if it's not perfect for the SL88, but maybe good enough.

Regards,
Martin

Reply by groovy

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

But if Pianoteq can handle that, I'm fine.

No doubt Pianoteq can handle a lot of MIDI events, but the MIDI 1.0 protocol itself can be a bottleneck. It can only handle one MIDI event per Millisecond. If there are too much events at the same time they are serialized and random latency can occur. - Don't know how much events the SL88 Grand generates with an analog foot controller per second (some kind of "samplerate").

Reply by MartinGr

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

groovy wrote:

But if Pianoteq can handle that, I'm fine.

No doubt Pianoteq can handle a lot of MIDI events, but the MIDI 1.0 protocol itself can be a bottleneck. It can only handle one MIDI event per Millisecond. If there are too much events at the same time they are serialized and random latency can occur. - Don't know how much events the SL88 Grand generates with an analog foot controller per second (some kind of "samplerate").

What is the unit in the Midi monitor? My SL88 sends a pedal event every 22th unit. The Arturia sends much less, but doesn't go to down to zero - but to 11...

As it starts to get sticky again, I think I'll try something different.

Reply by groovy

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

MartinGr wrote:

What is the unit in the Midi monitor? My SL88 sends a pedal event every 22th unit. The Arturia sends much less, but doesn't go to down to zero - but to 11...

The left column in the MIDI monitor is a timeline in seconds. I guess the best is an example:

I'm having an analog Roland DP-10 sustain pedal with a selfmade USB-MIDI controller. If I press the pedal quickly I get the first value 15 at 140.884 s.
After 140.964 s the pedal bottoms out with the maximum value 127.

In between I get three more values (41, 75, 103). In other words:
(140.964 s - 140.884 s) = 80 ms for four steps.

This means one step is ~20 ms

This interval of 20 ms is big enough to not rival with notes, as ~19 notes can be played in this interval.

You wrote " My SL88 sends a pedal event every 22th unit", so I guess on you system the interval is 22 ms.

Interesting, that Studiologic/Fatar came to the same pedal interval that was the endpoint of my own development here:
Standalone continuous sustain pedal?

PS:
An offset (like 11) with your Arturia is "normal". To eliminate this you can use Pianoteq's Pedal curve, as Leandro and Qexl proposed.

Last edited by groovy (13-02-2021 11:27)

Reply by MartinGr

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

groovy wrote:

This interval of 20 ms is big enough to not rival with notes, as ~19 notes can be played in this interval.

Thank you for the explanations!
So, my SL88 sends changes every 22ms.
Would be nice, if the velocity curve was adjustable in the keyboard, to avoid useless data - but it is like it is.
Today after some practicing, it is even not sticky anymore.
So it seems to be ok for the moment.

Regards,
Martin

Reply by groovy

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

MartinGr wrote:

So, my SL88 sends changes every 22ms.

But the SL88 doesn't send events continuously - only when there really is a change, right?

Reply by MartinGr

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Re: Anyone using a Roland DP-10 pedal in continous mode?

groovy wrote:
MartinGr wrote:

So, my SL88 sends changes every 22ms.

But the SL88 doesn't send events continuously - only when there really is a change, right?

Well, except when not pressed, there are some slight changes almost every time. Even when fully pressed, it sends changes between 100 and 110.

But after it became sticky again, I ordered the 3-pedal-unit from Studio Logic, designed for the SL88.
I've just tried it, and with this keyboard, it is so much better. The range is from 0 to 127, and the curve is smooth. So when I hold half pedal, I have a constant value for a while. And now the graphical pedal in the GUI of Pianoteq moves smooth, and not nervous.
(60 Euros more expensive - but now I have even a middle pedal, and everything is in place with onle one cable)

But I think it's the combination of pedal and keyboard. With others, the DP-10 might work better.

Last edited by MartinGr (15-02-2021 19:56)