Topic: "Ghost" stops in Organteq 2

In some of the Presets for Organteq 2 I seem to be experiencing "ghost" stops. This is a situation where the stop in question is pushed in, but there appears to be a semi transparent version of the pulled out stop floating above it. Hence the nickname, "ghost" stop.

If you push in all the stops, for a console with "ghost" stops, then pressing a note on the keyboard should not play any sound. However, the "ghost" stop(s) are still sounding although everything is closed. Presumably, they also sound when you open any of the other stops on the console.

An example of this can be seen with tmyoung's recent FXP example for the "1984 Waltrop Sauer organ", which is haunted with "ghost" stops. I don't mean to disparage tmyoung's work on this organ, which I really enjoy, but rather I am using it as the easiest example of this issue I can find.

The "ghosts" can be seen on the Stop window of the Settings as a half way almost activated stop with a grey ghost like colour to activation dot.

The problem I have with the "ghost" stops is that I can't silence them, as there doesn't seem to be a way of turning them off. They can be fully turned on, but not fully turned off, as they go back to the "ghost" state. As they are always sounding when a note is played, they quickly add to the CPU load of the Organteq 2 application. Whilst a normal performance on Organteq 2 would utilise between 20-35% of 4-core CPU, the presence of ghosts can quickly mean that the program is running at close to 100% CPU utilisation.

Usually the Linux version of Organteq 2 is extremely light-weight and efficient, but "ghost" stops really do seem to floor it. The Tutti you have when you didn't order a Tutti.

Now I am not sure whether I am encountering a "bug" or a "Value Added Enhancement", or a standard feature of physical organs that I was not previously aware of, which has only recently been implemented in Organteq 2. The latter is probably the more obvious case, as I am somewhat of an organist manqué and thus my ignorance is boundless.

Whatever the reason for the existence of "ghost" stops, I would to be able to either deactivate them or create them or understand why they exist, none of which I seem capable of doing at the moment.

Hopefully I don't need an Exorcist, but merely Enlightenment.

Michael

Last edited by mprimrose (04-10-2023 04:24)
Pianoteq 8 Studio plus all Instrument packs; Organteq 2; Debian; Reaper; Carla

Re: "Ghost" stops in Organteq 2

mprimrose wrote:

In some of the Presets for Organteq 2 I seem to be experiencing "ghost" stops. This is a situation where the stop in question is pushed in, but there appears to be a semi transparent version of the pulled out stop floating above it. Hence the nickname, "ghost" stop.

If you push in all the stops, for a console with "ghost" stops, then pressing a note on the keyboard should not play any sound. However, the "ghost" stop(s) are still sounding although everything is closed. Presumably, they also sound when you open any of the other stops on the console.

An example of this can be seen with tmyoung's recent FXP example for the "1984 Waltrop Sauer organ", which is haunted with "ghost" stops. I don't mean to disparage tmyoung's work on this organ, which I really enjoy, but rather I am using it as the easiest example of this issue I can find.

The "ghosts" can be seen on the Stop window of the Settings as a half way almost activated stop with a grey ghost like colour to activation dot.

The problem I have with the "ghost" stops is that I can't silence them, as there doesn't seem to be a way of turning them off. They can be fully turned on, but not fully turned off, as they go back to the "ghost" state. As they are always sounding when a note is played, they quickly add to the CPU load of the Organteq 2 application. Whilst a normal performance on Organteq 2 would utilise between 20-35% of 4-core CPU, the presence of ghosts can quickly mean that the program is running at close to 100% CPU utilisation.

Usually the Linux version of Organteq 2 is extremely light-weight and efficient, but "ghost" stops really do seem to floor it. The Tutti you have when you didn't order a Tutti.

Now I am not sure whether I am encountering a "bug" or a "Value Added Enhancement", or a standard feature of physical organs that I was not previously aware of, which has only recently been implemented in Organteq 2. The latter is probably the more obvious case, as I am somewhat of an organist manqué and thus my ignorance is boundless.

Whatever the reason for the existence of "ghost" stops, I would to be able to either deactivate them or create them or understand why they exist, none of which I seem capable of doing at the moment.

Hopefully I don't need an Exorcist, but merely Enlightenment.

Michael

From playing with the new app, I think the "ghost" stops appear when they are "automatically" added as the crescendo pedal is depressed and disappear as it is returned to its rest position. The ghost stops allow the organist to determine the source of the sound at any particular time but remain readily distinguishable from other more "normal" stops that the organist has consciously chosen. I am not an organist myself but this seemed to be what was happening and I hope my analysis is accurate!

Last edited by Mike Philcox (04-10-2023 06:22)

Re: "Ghost" stops in Organteq 2

Mike Philcox wrote:

From playing with the new app, I think the "ghost" stops appear when they are "automatically" added as the crescendo pedal is depressed and disappear as it is returned to its rest position. The ghost stops allow the organist to determine the source of the sound at any particular time but remain readily distinguishable from other more "normal" stops that the organist has consciously chosen. I am not an organist myself but this seemed to be what was happening and I hope my analysis is accurate!

That is correct.  Whenever the Tutti or Crescendo engage a stop that isn't already open, it does the "ghost" pull.  Combinations and otherwise manually opened stops will stay open after the Tutti or Crescendo changes.  I believe Tremulants, Couplers, and other pistons can exhibit the same behavior if they're programmed into the Crescendo pedal.  The same functionality is shown in the Stop edit panel, where a completely filled circle is an open stop and a gradient/partially filled circle means the Crescendo or Tutti engaged the stop.  The Jamb View does something similar.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Pro & Organteq 2
Steinways, Grotrian, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Petrof, Blüthner, K2, Karsten, & Kremsegg
Casio GP300

Re: "Ghost" stops in Organteq 2

If one had read the Organteq 2 manual before posting, and one had known what it was that one was looking for,  one would have come across the following relevant sections

3.5. Stop drawknobs
When playing on a keyboard, a stop has to be activated to be heard. This is done with the stop drawknob, on the side of the keyboard.

Stops can also be activated not manually by using either:

the Crescendo pedal, or
the Tutti button.
Stops that are activated using these features are ghosted.

and

5.7. Crescendo Panel
The crescendo pedal triggers a pre-recorded sequence of stop switches, coupler pedals and tremulant switches. The crescendo pedal is divided into 24 steps. Note that the crescendo pedal takes only control on items that are not switched on by hand.

The Crescendo panel lists all the items that are affected by the crescendo pedal. The items are sorted by category: keyboard divisions, couplers and tremulants. The vertical black line represents the position of the crescendo pedal with respect to the steps.

When the crescendo pedal matches a filled step, i.e. when the vertical black line enters a filled step, the item is switched on. This has no effect if the item is already switched on by hand.

When the crescendo pedal matches an cleared step, the item is switched off. This happens only if the item is not switched on by hand.

Of course, after decades of testing IT applications and designing IT architecture, I have a tendency to "play" with an application first, in order to find out what its potential and limitations are. It is only once I run into a roadblock that I resort to actually reading the manual in any detail. If I had done so I would have picked up that Organteq 2 has rationalised the way it controls the activation of the crescendo pedal and made it easier to utilise for groups of stops.

Since I tend to utilise Organteq as a virtual system, without either a physical keyboard or a crescendo pedal, the Crescendo Pedal is not something that gets much use. A left click on the pedal will set the crescendo to either 0% or 100%, and I learnt early on that 100% crescendo flattens my CPU and is therefore of little practical utility. I only learnt today that right clicking on the pedal allows one to set the crescendo level to any value between 0% and 100%, or between 0 and 1.00 in Organteq 1.6. An intermediate level can also be set by holding a left click on the mouse and moving the cursor vertically up and down the pedal.

However, it is only looking at Crescendo Panel in Organteq 2, that I had some idea of how one could manipulate the position of the vertical black pedal line and what one could achieve by doing so.

I have been trying for some time to configure a set of "en chamade" reeds. The Cavaillé-Coll organ, at the Church of Saint Sernin, Toulouse, France, has a "Trompette en chamade 8" and a "Clairon en chamade 4" as stops on the Grand Orgue. As I am neither limited by the constraints of space or gravity, within my digital audio environment, it would also be possible to rotate the another reed rank and have a "Posaunen Bass en chamade 16 and 32" as an additional stops on my Grand Orgue manual simply for my personal enjoyment and amusement. 

If I understand the Crescendo Panel correctly, I could configure the Clarion 4', Trompette 8', Posaunen Bass 16' and Posaunen Bass 32' to progressively activate and deactivate as the crescendo pedal was depressed and raised. Rotating a rank of Posaunen Bass 32' pipes horizontally, even virtually is going to be rather fun, but I think the expression pedal may be helpful here, as one can configure what ranks of pipes are going to be effected  as the wooden blinds of the box containing the ranks of pipes opens up,

I had a sneaking suspicion that I was missing something blindingly obvious, so much thanks for enlightening me. It also means that I can see some interesting configuration possibilities that weren't either obvious or possible before.

The best thing about asking naive questions is obtaining stimulating responses.

Michael

Pianoteq 8 Studio plus all Instrument packs; Organteq 2; Debian; Reaper; Carla

Re: "Ghost" stops in Organteq 2

For En Chamade, you can set an individual stops volume and other sounds settings and set MIDI events to control them, which would allow you to make those stops louder, tighter and with more (or less) reverb.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Pro & Organteq 2
Steinways, Grotrian, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Petrof, Blüthner, K2, Karsten, & Kremsegg
Casio GP300