Topic: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Hey all! I’m a co-founder of Vidal and the designer of our Magnet Action MIDI Controller. We’ve had a few people place pre-orders for our keyboard after first seeing it mentioned on this forum, so we thought we’d drop in directly and chat.

We make digital keyboard instruments that capture what’s so meaningful about playing an acoustic piano. Guitarists have long had a huge selection of beautiful and well-crafted instruments to choose from, but keyboard players only get a few choices, all of which are made out of plastic and often feel more like tech gadgets than real instruments.

For our keyboards, we designed our own action that uses traditional wood materials along with magnets, weights, and springs to more realistically re-create the touchweight feel of a grand piano. It’s also fully adjustable, so you can change the feel of the keys to your own liking.

We just released an in-depth article on how our Magnet Action works that you can read here:

https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/how-ou...tion-works

We’re curious to hear what people think, and we’re happy to answer any questions you might have!

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

This seems all fine and dandy but do you actually get the parts required delivered? No shortages?
As it's 2023, having different sizes for accessibility is key. https://dsstandardfoundation.org/the-standards/
How the heck do you get people to trust yet another seemingly random project? The 88 key model is almost 3.5k eur.

Putting your video behind instagram or other social media platforms that require accounts is disgusting.
Especially from a potential visitors perspective - it just doesn't work.
Do you guys have Certified European and so on to legally import the thing into Europe? Or is this only a local project?

The thing with the magnets isn't new at all. Being able to add a common triple pedal unit of a well-known manufacturer is a must.
I don't see it.
Is this at least MIDI 2.0? Don't tell me you did this without being up-to-date and using higher-tech sensing.

Why should I drop 3.5k eur on this? Kinda reminds me of that kaduk.nl still doesn't ship to customers it seems.
What do you guys do differently? How can I know this is not a scheme for just getting a credit?
How do you plan earning the customers trust?

How come this is your first post and priorly you had absolutely no posts here?
Also why are you not trying to be in https://paskpiano.org/  ?

Last edited by Defenz0r (31-07-2023 12:22)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Previous thread:
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=10495

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

I love to see this. Sounds thoughtfully made, and looks beautiful. I'm excited to see this sort of instrument produced artisanally (and when I'm in Philadelphia I'd love to visit the office, if that's possible).

After the "first batch" of preorders, when you do anticipate you might open up orders or preorders again?

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

smulloni wrote:

I love to see this. Sounds thoughtfully made, and looks beautiful. I'm excited to see this sort of instrument produced artisanally (and when I'm in Philadelphia I'd love to visit the office, if that's possible).

After the "first batch" of preorders, when you do anticipate you might open up orders or preorders again?

Let us know when you're in town! We're open by appointment to try out the keyboard.

No word yet on timeframes for future batches, but we'll be sharing more on our Instagram and website.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Do you have plans to partnership with piano manufacturers?
    I would like to present your system to a piano manufacturer in my country. I once visited them and we talked about create a wooden midi piano controller that would feel very close to a real grand piano.

  What about scapment? Any plans to add something to produce the little "clic" feeling?

    I had wondered in past about use magnets to key resistance, but the use of oposite pole magnets tend to be much more hard, in key feeling, when magnets are closer. I see you combined springs and more than one set of magnets to over ome this limitation. Interesting...
     I hope you don't mind, but I need to say the springs looks too fragile. It can be nice to offer the product with a free second and third set of springs, as it looks very easy to replace.

     About adjust key weight feeling,  this set up looks great for people used to adjust piano actions, but for people who never... Uuhn... may be too time consuming.
     I have an idea to make a version with simpler adjusts, not key-by-key but by 3 or 4 sections of keyboard range or the entire range.

     If your project feels more natural than VPC1 or Roland latest system, it would make an older idea of mine viable. It's an idea about a versatile digital piano cotroller with sound in a versatile way never did before.

tomrudnitsky wrote:

Let us know when you're in town! We're open by appointment to try out the keyboard.

No word yet on timeframes for future batches, but we'll be sharing more on our Instagram and website.

Last edited by Beto-Music (01-08-2023 18:50)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Just a friendly suggestion to Vidal guys:

You should make a stand for your instrument. Beautiful wooden case looks weird on a cheap X-stand and those stands are also horrible as playing experience -  they are unstable, swing back and forth and take out space from your feet. If custom stand is not possible at the moment use at least some sturdy stand like K&M 18810.

Just my 2 cents

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

First I had wondered about the tiny springs and how long it would last.
   Now I wonder how long the magnets would last.
   Magnets can last way long decades IF kept in IDEAL condition. But once the magnets in the midi controller are in constant oposed poles one to each other, it may lose magnetic power over years.


https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/tech-b...onditions.


"EXTERNAL FIELDS
Magnet alloys are magnetized with a sufficiently intense magnetic field established in the same direction as the magnet’s orientation. When a material is exposed to a strong magnetic field that is established in opposition to its magnetic orientation, part of the magnet may become demagnetized. This demagnetization reduces the effective field of the magnet, and the magnet’s performance will degrade.

External demagnetizing fields can originate from fields created by electromagnets, coils, or other neighboring permanent magnets. An example of a coil would be a motor application where the dynamic fields created by a coil set interacts with fields from permanent magnets to create motion."

Last edited by Beto-Music (03-08-2023 20:08)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

I'm interested in this. I see no connections for a triple pedal, though; only sustain and expression.

If I'm right, this is a problem if you're a Pianoteq user. I use all three pedals and would be unwilling to spend this much on a MIDI piano keyboard (specifically designed to mimick the action of a real grand) that doesn't support triple pedals -- or that doesn't come with its own triple pedal for that matter.

It seems a weird oversight but perhaps there's a solution?

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Pianophile wrote:

I'm interested in this. I see no connections for a triple pedal, though; only sustain and expression.

If I'm right, this is a problem if you're a Pianoteq user. I use all three pedals and would be unwilling to spend this much on a MIDI piano keyboard (specifically designed to mimick the action of a real grand) that doesn't support triple pedals -- or that doesn't come with its own triple pedal for that matter.

It seems a weird oversight but perhaps there's a solution?

The Sustain and Expression jacks are all that is needed for a conventional triple pedal. Triple pedals like the Fatar VFP3-D and various rebranded versions connect through two analog cables, one (continuous variable for the damper pedal) to the Expression jack, and one (on/off momentary switches for soft and sostenuto pedals  You can see this typical arrangement on the Lachnit keyboards and their rebranded Fatar triple pedal. The Sustain connection for the left and middle pedals is a stereo cable-plug-jack arrangement to carry the two momentary On signals from the triple pedal over the same connection.

Last edited by TimN (04-08-2023 18:06)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Pianophile wrote:

I'm interested in this. I see no connections for a triple pedal, though; only sustain and expression.

If I'm right, this is a problem if you're a Pianoteq user. I use all three pedals and would be unwilling to spend this much on a MIDI piano keyboard (specifically designed to mimick the action of a real grand) that doesn't support triple pedals -- or that doesn't come with its own triple pedal for that matter.

It seems a weird oversight but perhaps there's a solution?

There's no need to feed the pedal output into the keyboard controller.  You can use a pedal to midi converter like Audiofront's MidiExpression (https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php) to convert the pedal signals to midi and connect to a usb port on your computer.  The controller doesn't need any external pedal support at all.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Ecaroh wrote:

Just a friendly suggestion to Vidal guys:

You should make a stand for your instrument. Beautiful wooden case looks weird on a cheap X-stand and those stands are also horrible as playing experience -  they are unstable, swing back and forth and take out space from your feet. If custom stand is not possible at the moment use at least some sturdy stand like K&M 18810.

Just my 2 cents

This is one of our top requests! We'll definitely be making one in the near future, but for now we're focusing all our energy on development of the keyboard itself.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Beto-Music wrote:

Do you have plans to partnership with piano manufacturers?
    I would like to present your system to a piano manufacturer in my country. I once visited them and we talked about create a wooden midi piano controller that would feel very close to a real grand piano.

  What about scapment? Any plans to add something to produce the little "clic" feeling?

    I had wondered in past about use magnets to key resistance, but the use of oposite pole magnets tend to be much more hard, in key feeling, when magnets are closer. I see you combined springs and more than one set of magnets to over ome this limitation. Interesting...
     I hope you don't mind, but I need to say the springs looks too fragile. It can be nice to offer the product with a free second and third set of springs, as it looks very easy to replace.

     About adjust key weight feeling,  this set up looks great for people used to adjust piano actions, but for people who never... Uuhn... may be too time consuming.
     I have an idea to make a version with simpler adjusts, not key-by-key but by 3 or 4 sections of keyboard range or the entire range.

     If your project feels more natural than VPC1 or Roland latest system, it would make an older idea of mine viable. It's an idea about a versatile digital piano cotroller with sound in a versatile way never did before.

Despite being small, the springs are very sturdy and have no risk of breaking. They're also very stable over time at the level of tension they're set at. We know how important it is that these keyboards work flawlessly for people, and we've done thorough engineering and testing on every aspect of the action to make it as durable and stable as possible.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Beto-Music wrote:

First I had wondered about the tiny springs and how long it would last.
   Now I wonder how long the magnets would last.
   Magnets can last way long decades IF kept in IDEAL condition. But once the magnets in the midi controller are in constant oposed poles one to each other, it may lose magnetic power over years.


https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/tech-b...onditions.


"EXTERNAL FIELDS
Magnet alloys are magnetized with a sufficiently intense magnetic field established in the same direction as the magnet’s orientation. When a material is exposed to a strong magnetic field that is established in opposition to its magnetic orientation, part of the magnet may become demagnetized. This demagnetization reduces the effective field of the magnet, and the magnet’s performance will degrade.

External demagnetizing fields can originate from fields created by electromagnets, coils, or other neighboring permanent magnets. An example of a coil would be a motor application where the dynamic fields created by a coil set interacts with fields from permanent magnets to create motion."

The magnets actually aren't used in opposing poles in our application. We have magnets adjacent each other in the keybed, and then steel screws in the keys. Early on we tried having magnets in the keys and screws in the keybed, but this caused adjacent keys to interfere with each other since magnets would be swinging next to each other.

As for longevity, the kind of magnet we're using should be very stable over time. I doubt there'd be any noticeable change in magnetism over 10 years, and even if there was, the adjustable screws would make it easy to compensate.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

A keyboard with the most realistic touch is a great idea.This is a constant quest for many pianoteq users. But what a strange idea to offer a Steinway feeling keyboard in 73 or 61 key versions! I doubt many pianists will be interested in these versions. Why didn't you concentrate on the 88-key model ?

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

TimN wrote:
Pianophile wrote:

I'm interested in this. I see no connections for a triple pedal, though; only sustain and expression.

If I'm right, this is a problem if you're a Pianoteq user. I use all three pedals and would be unwilling to spend this much on a MIDI piano keyboard (specifically designed to mimick the action of a real grand) that doesn't support triple pedals -- or that doesn't come with its own triple pedal for that matter.

It seems a weird oversight but perhaps there's a solution?

The Sustain and Expression jacks are all that is needed for a conventional triple pedal. Triple pedals like the Fatar VFP3-D and various rebranded versions connect through two analog cables, one (continuous variable for the damper pedal) to the Expression jack, and one (on/off momentary switches for soft and sostenuto pedals  You can see this typical arrangement on the Lachnit keyboards and their rebranded Fatar triple pedal. The Sustain connection for the left and middle pedals is a stereo cable-plug-jack arrangement to carry the two momentary On signals from the triple pedal over the same connection.

That's good to know; thanks for the info!

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

This instrument looks stylish and attractive!
A very interesting solution with magnets. Indeed, in digital ones, after pressing, you need to hold the weight of the hammer with your finger (or something that looks like a hammer). It's tiring. In live instruments, the hammer is picked up by a finger and holding the key pressed takes little effort. The solution with magnets probably reduces this problem quite well.
But in the “Realistic Haptic Feedback” section in the tool description there is an incorrect statement for me. There is no doubt that when playing, the performer is extremely sensitive to the time between his actions and the resulting sound. I'm also glad that the creators of Vidal are paying attention to this. But in live instruments, the sound does not appear exactly at the moment the key reaches the bottom. You can kick a key so that you get a sound and at the same time you may not reach the bottom with the key at all. You can repeat the sound without reaching the bottom. Also, the moment the sound appears live can be either earlier or later than the moment when the key reaches the bottom. It depends on the style with which you approach sound production. There is a certain playfulness and appeal to the living in this.
The Internet contains research on this matter.
Therefore, I can assume that this instrument will be of interest to, for example, producers, music creators, amateurs, DJs, and many others, but will not be suitable for a professional pianist.
I also think that the instrument can have a rather attractive tactility. And he's handsome!

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/february-2024-update

Looks like they've ditched the springs and are going with an 88-key model for the next run. It's out of my budget at the moment, but I thought some folks here might be interested.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

This might be ground-breaking. Wood action with a magnet. From what it looks, I can tell the piano will be thinner and lighter than many brands (Kawai, Yamaha, Roland) with triple sensors.

I think 25 lbs (12kg) with 88 keys is the ballpark that many piano performers are happy to carry around without hurting their backs. The 73 or 76 (less weight) with pitch bend and modulation would attract a wider keyboardist. Kawai VPC-1 doesn't have one. Roland does have them, but they're on the left side, adding more length and weight. I like the Studio Logic setup, though (however, it's too tiny). They put it on top left instead of left next to the keyboard. It greatly reduced the length of the keyboard.

YouTube page: Dulistan Heman

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

dulistan heman wrote:

This might be ground-breaking. Wood action with a magnet. From what it looks, I can tell the piano will be thinner and lighter than many brands (Kawai, Yamaha, Roland) with triple sensors.

I think 25 lbs (12kg) with 88 keys is the ballpark that many piano performers are happy to carry around without hurting their backs. The 73 or 76 (less weight) with pitch bend and modulation would attract a wider keyboardist. Kawai VPC-1 doesn't have one. Roland does have them, but they're on the left side, adding more length and weight. I like the Studio Logic setup, though (however, it's too tiny). They put it on top left instead of left next to the keyboard. It greatly reduced the length of the keyboard.

They look good for an extremely tiny number of well heeled customers. I don't think it's going to break new ground in keyboard manufacturing techniques.

If I was buying a fancy keyboard for anything other than piano I would expect it to have MIDI 2.0 polyphonic aftertouch at bare minimum.
I wish the company well though. Look forward to seeing where they can take the design.

Last edited by Key Fumbler (13-02-2024 09:40)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Key Fumbler wrote:

They look good for an extremely tiny number of well heeled customers. I don't think it's going to break new ground in keyboard manufacturing techniques.

If I was buying a fancy keyboard for anything other than piano I would expect it to have MIDI 2.0 polyphonic aftertouch at bare minimum.
I wish the company well though. Look forward to seeing where they can take the design.

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

I did seek out MIDI 2.0 a few years ago because of my worst experience with pianoteq velocity. But since version 8, I am pretty satisfied. This 8.2 version definitely makes me love my VPC-1 and need not look for MIDI 2.0.

The current loudness war in the digital music market is pretty much against the use of MIDI 2.0 due to heavy compression in mixing and mastering.

Still, we need some Roland owners with MIDI 2.0 to upload their sound so we can appreciate the difference. Uploading the comparison with the same MIDI files on MIDI 1.0 is also needed so we can hear if there's any significant differences.

YouTube page: Dulistan Heman

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

dulistan heman wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:

They look good for an extremely tiny number of well heeled customers. I don't think it's going to break new ground in keyboard manufacturing techniques.

If I was buying a fancy keyboard for anything other than piano I would expect it to have MIDI 2.0 polyphonic aftertouch at bare minimum.
I wish the company well though. Look forward to seeing where they can take the design.

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

I did seek out MIDI 2.0 a few years ago because of my worst experience with pianoteq velocity. But since version 8, I am pretty satisfied. This 8.2 version definitely makes me love my VPC-1 and need not look for MIDI 2.0.

The current loudness war in the digital music market is pretty much against the use of MIDI 2.0 due to heavy compression in mixing and mastering.

Still, we need some Roland owners with MIDI 2.0 to upload their sound so we can appreciate the difference. Uploading the comparison with the same MIDI files on MIDI 1.0 is also needed so we can hear if there's any significant differences.

I suspect the velocity step increase would actually prove to be something people cannot detect reliably in blind tests with Piano.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

dulistan heman wrote:

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

Yeah, I've been curious about this also! In theory, it seems like it would be most noticeable for users with aggressive velocity curves. There can be a bit of a trade-off today between getting the "right" feel without losing velocity resolution.

Do you know of any premium hammer action Roland (or other) controllers with MIDI 2.0? I know the A88 MK2 has it, which uses their entry-level PHA4 action, but wasn't sure if anything else did.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

miiindbullets wrote:
dulistan heman wrote:

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

Yeah, I've been curious about this also! In theory, it seems like it would be most noticeable for users with aggressive velocity curves. There can be a bit of a trade-off today between getting the "right" feel without losing velocity resolution.

Do you know of any premium hammer action Roland (or other) controllers with MIDI 2.0? I know the A88 MK2 has it, which uses their entry-level PHA4 action, but wasn't sure if anything else did.

I don't know if PHA-4 performs better when in a stiffer chassis, or if it's possible that Roland treat them differently between different versions. I'm guessing not a whole lot of difference even if they do. Nonetheless Roland must have a lot of faith in that action, regardless of price.

MIDI 2.0 compatibility I believe is also in the new graded hammer action NI poly aftertouch keyboard. Again it's a multi purpose controller - very high end in that market,  but I'm guessing run of the mill entry level as piano controllers go - given the price of high end digital pianos.

As for the velocity curves I suggest that if you have to use very aggressive curves to correct for the velocity response of a keyboard regardless of the amount of digital steps mechanically it's not that well designed (or faulty) and should be replaced.
That's not to say that would be the case if we were talking a special setting for a special preset.

Mechanical action is by far the most important factor and customers for this Vidal controller will know that.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

The vidal removed the springs and placed huge lead weights.
This new version will probably going heavier.
I can't figure how the magnets are now...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/...1707754261

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

This is very interesting! I liked the old design more because of the (aparent) longer pivot point.
(Con: at that price tag, I would go for a MP11SE)

Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Beto-Music wrote:

The vidal removed the springs and placed huge lead weights.
This new version will probably going heavier.
I can't figure how the magnets are now...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/...1707754261

Vidal seemed to me to be a good proposal for innovation in the search for an action closer to the conventional piano.
I would buy it if it weren't so expensive. But I understand that, as it is an almost artisanal construction, it would be impossible to do it for less.
Furthermore, I don't give up the 88 keys.

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

It's really way longer pivot point in the older design. Short pivot spoils the whole thing.
If they increase lenght of the second design to be up the pivot of the first design, the whole wood piece would be very large.

Now they have a problem to solve...

marcos daniel wrote:

This is very interesting! I liked the old design more because of the (aparent) longer pivot point.
(Con: at that price tag, I would go for a MP11SE)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Or you could build your own.
But on Brazil today we only find MDF and not true wood.

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

The vidal removed the springs and placed huge lead weights.
This new version will probably going heavier.
I can't figure how the magnets are now...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/...1707754261

Vidal seemed to me to be a good proposal for innovation in the search for an action closer to the conventional piano.
I would buy it if it weren't so expensive. But I understand that, as it is an almost artisanal construction, it would be impossible to do it for less.
Furthermore, I don't give up the 88 keys.

Last edited by Beto-Music (14-02-2024 19:06)

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Beto-Music wrote:

It's really way longer pivot point in the older design. Short pivot spoils the whole thing.

Just noticed that... that's a bummer. Not that I had the budget for it in the first place, but seems likely that more realistic "grand" action could be had for less money.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

miiindbullets wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

It's really way longer pivot point in the older design. Short pivot spoils the whole thing.

Just noticed that... that's a bummer. Not that I had the budget for it in the first place, but seems likely that more realistic "grand" action could be had for less money.

The new pivot point appears to be where it would be on a true grand action, at least as nearly as I can measure in photos. The stated goal of the new design is to come closer to the inertial feel of a standard grand action, which pivots approximately at the center of the white keys, measured front to back.  This is not a "short" pivot, it is a more accurate pivot, I think. Perhaps the Vidal designers can clarify here?

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

The Vidal Piano Controller keys are ~19 inches (480 millimeters) long from front to back.
--> Vidal Piano Controller blog update, February, 2024: https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/february-2024-update

The longest keys of a full-size Steinway grand piano are about 24 inches long, but that includes a bend in some of the keys to accommodate the positions of the strings they are intended to strike, as well as the several inches of key behind the capstan (the broad-headed metal pin that pushes the hammer action upward) to accommodate the hammer backcheck, which adds weight and inertia but has little effect on the leverage ratio on either side of the fulcrum.

The Vidal Piano Controller does not require a hammer backcheck or the additional length of key needed for it, and incorporates a metal weight at the back of each key which substitutes for the weight of the additional several inches of wood and mechanism at the rear of acoustic grand piano keys.

The image below is for comparison and lever location between a modern Steinway grand piano action and the Vidal Piano Controller.
The Vidal Piano Controller seems (to me) to compare favorably or similarly in terms of leverage (the fulcrum point) and inertial weight (as detailed in the blog update at the webpage mentioned above).

https://i.imgur.com/3mWBReK.png

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (16-02-2024 17:30)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

The Vidal Piano Controller keys are ~19 inches (480 millimeters) long from front to back.
A full-size Steinway grand piano's keys are ~24 inches long, but that includes several inches of the key behind the capstan which pushes the hammer action upward, to accommodate each key's hammer backcheck, as well as a horizontal bend in many of the wooden keys to accommodate string positions.

Can you point me to the source you are using for the 480 mm length of the Vidal keys? Thanks!

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

TimN wrote:
Stephen_Doonan wrote:

The Vidal Piano Controller keys are ~19 inches (480 millimeters) long from front to back.
A full-size Steinway grand piano's keys are ~24 inches long, but that includes several inches of the key behind the capstan which pushes the hammer action upward, to accommodate each key's hammer backcheck, as well as a horizontal bend in many of the wooden keys to accommodate string positions.

Can you point me to the source you are using for the 480 mm length of the Vidal keys? Thanks!

Oh, sorry...I found it in their new blog post.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Sorry folks...
Long pivot it's importat for many pianists, specially the ones used with concert grand pianos.
The short pivot piano action photo from of a Steinwain means nothing. First because it's not made by Steinway, and seconde because it can be from a baby grand piano, which uses short pivot action.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

Beto-Music wrote:

Sorry folks...
Long pivot it's importat for many pianists, specially the ones used with concert grand pianos.
The short pivot piano action photo from of a Steinwain means nothing. First because it's not made by Steinway, and seconde because it can be from a baby grand piano, which uses short pivot action.

I believe the Vidal folks are still prototyping and testing different key lengths, including longer ones.  If they incorporate the length of full (e.g., Steinway D) concert grand keys (adding about 6" or 150mm), it might result in effects on size, weight and stability of the entire design that render it impractical as a portable keyboard.  However, it might be feasible to lengthen it to Steinway B size (adding about 1.5" or 35mm). A full concert keyboard would be fine for a home or studio, but it might be quite a task to transport it to gigs without assistance.

Now is the time write to them to share your suggestions for their design....They are still developing and prototyping, so they want to know what potential users would actually prefer (and purchase), and what features are most important to you in a piano controller.

Re: Vidal Magnet Action MIDI Controller

A nice update on the Vidal MIDI controller--

Longer Key Length

After feedback from pre-order holders and our own internal testing, we’ve increase the length of the keys by 1.5” (38mm). This increased key length significantly improves both the inertial feel of the keys and the consistency of leverage required to play the keys across the entire front-to-back length of the keytop. The choice to make these changes were based on a single factor: larger grand pianos feel better to play, and this is mostly due to the fact that they have longer keys.

New Key Length: 20 7/16” (519mm)
New Balance Distance: 9 15/16” (252mm)

The increase in inertia with longer keys makes it easier to control subtle gradations in dynamics and voicing, and the longer balance distance allow the full surface of the keys to be utilized when playing. On shorter keys, it takes a lot more force to play at the back of the keys than at the front, and this makes playing feels cramped. On most digital pianos, you can’t even get the key to press down when playing at the back. With longer key lengths such as those found on grand pianos 6 ft. in length or more, your fingers can use the entire keytop surface, and playing feels much more fluid and controllable.

https://i.imgur.com/2iQWIoU.png

Full announcement in blog--
https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/first-...as-started

-- -- --

--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq