Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.
But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Check out a DP with the PHA50 action/keybed. See if you can hook up your laptop/iPad in store and demo yourself. That would be my four penneth!
Warmest regards,
Chris
The only ones I can think of are all going to be overkill if that's how you see it. They certainly would be for my limited means.
That said the action in the Kawai mp11 is supposed to be their best, and superior to the VPC1.
Frankly this seems a poor choice on Kawai's part to me. I guess they dipped their toes with the VPC1 but they didn't see the commercial potential of a VPC2 or upgrading VPC1 to exactly the same mechanical action.
Given the specialist nature I suggest a top of the line MIDI controller action should be at least equal to any digital piano, if not better.
At least in piano controllers that's not the case today.
Animisha wrote:Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Check out a DP with the PHA50 action/keybed. See if you can hook up your laptop/iPad in store and demo yourself. That would be my four penneth!
Warmest regards,
Chris
You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Just a suggestion,
However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
https://playvidal.com/products/vidal
Warmest regards,
Chris
sigasa wrote:Animisha wrote:Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Check out a DP with the PHA50 action/keybed. See if you can hook up your laptop/iPad in store and demo yourself. That would be my four penneth!
Warmest regards,
Chris
You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Just a suggestion,
However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
https://playvidal.com/products/vidal
Warmest regards,
Chris
Holy macaroons, it is £4,638 - and I didn't even check if there's tax to go on that, or shipping!!!
You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Very good advice!
sigasa wrote:However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
Holy macaroons, it is £4,638 - and I didn't even check if there's tax to go on that, or shipping!!!
At least it is not overkill!
sigasa wrote:You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Very good advice!
Key Fumbler wrote:
sigasa wrote:However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
Holy macaroons, it is £4,638 - and I didn't even check if there's tax to go on that, or shipping!!!
At least it is not overkill!
sigasa wrote:You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Very good advice!
Key Fumbler wrote:
sigasa wrote:However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
Holy macaroons, it is £4,638 - and I didn't even check if there's tax to go on that, or shipping!!!
At least it is not overkill!
Heh heh, yes, at least you haven't wasted your money on extra bits that you're not going to use!!!
sigasa wrote:Animisha wrote:Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Check out a DP with the PHA50 action/keybed. See if you can hook up your laptop/iPad in store and demo yourself. That would be my four penneth!
Warmest regards,
Chris
You're probably best waiting till after January Namm. They'll probably be many new digital piano/controller offerings and you might find what you're looking for.
Just a suggestion,
However, if your interested in a pure piano controller (it's not cheap!) maybe check out Vidal Piano. They're working really hard on it.
https://playvidal.com/products/vidal
Warmest regards,
Chris
I really would like these chaps ( Vidal) to succeed , but the price is just a deterrent. In the same price magnitude you can get an NV5S in Europe which has a real acoustic action plus internal sound bank amongst the best . So the pricing seems wrong . Now it could well be that the action is phenomenal and better than any hybrid on the market , but I am subject to the saint Thomas syndrome , I.e. until we see proper reviews , I am a bit sceptical . I am actually surprised that the company didn’t invite seasoned pianists to review the piano with YouTube videos prior to launching . You have to be brave or rich to spend nearly 5k on a new controller from a startup company with no reviews . Again I wish they succeed but the marketing is not the best I have seen.
Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).
Quite incomprehensible. You make a controller for 5999 usd and you don't hire a shipping company that ships to Sweden?
I'll wait for the January NAMM instead.
Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).
Quite incomprehensible. You make a controller for 5999 usd and you don't hire a shipping company that ships to Sweden?
I'll wait for the January NAMM instead.
That's wisdom!
Warmest regards,
Chris
Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).
Quite incomprehensible. You make a controller for 5999 usd and you don't hire a shipping company that ships to Sweden?
I'll wait for the January NAMM instead.
Startups need to think of stuff like support etc. If someone has to fix it, do you send it back to Vidal or will they have a service center?
Which countries should they have service in?
These are the very real things startups have to worry about.
Which unfortunately affects smaller markets.
I understand you have some nice local options
I'm not qualified to discuss the refinements of different controller actions, but it's clear from what I've read that one person's "better" is another person's "worse".
It might help if you described what you don't like about the VPC1 action. And your budget.
It might help if you described what you don't like about the VPC1 action. And your budget.
I have just heard that with better action (compared to VPC1), it is easier to control dynamics and voicing. I spend a lot of practising time on technique, and with better action I hope to play more beautifully and expressively.
My budget... I could buy the Novus NO10S but it needs to be worth it, because I could also spend my money on other things.
sjgcit wrote:It might help if you described what you don't like about the VPC1 action. And your budget.
I have just heard that with better action (compared to VPC1), it is easier to control dynamics and voicing. I spend a lot of practising time on technique, and with better action I hope to play more beautifully and expressively.
My budget... I could buy the Novus NO10S but it needs to be worth it, because I could also spend my money on other things.
This still does not answer the question, what you don't like about the VPC1.
Examples: Keys too heavy, audible volume differences between keys? (That's the points I don't like about my VPC1)
-Heinrich
Hi Animisha,
I moved from a VPC1, which was about the best I'd found at the time, to a N1X. To begin with I wasn't sure I preferred it, but I was ready for that - it's always easier/nicer to play what you're used to. After a couple of weeks I'd become acclimatised to the N1X and I think now that it allows better control. In particular, I can better adjust the relative volume of two or more notes played together (with one hand). So, for example, I can more easily make the upper note of a third louder than the lower.
I'm not entirely sure that the best way forward for piano actions to be used solely for digital input is to attempt to emulate, or, in the case of the N1X etc, actually to use, a grand piano action. That action was evolved to solve the problem of controlling the hitting of physical strings. It works very well, but who's to say that you couldn't develop something equally good, but different, where all you're trying to control is a computer? The disadvantage would be that players used to a grand piano action would have to learn a different technique. But, as with my transition from VPC1 to N1X, I don't think that would take long.
The Vidal thing looks very interesting and I'd love to try one. But, for reasons already outlined, I'd need it for at least a couple of weeks, and I don't have that sort of spare cash just for an experiment.
Your worry about the N1X (or similar) being 'overkill' is presumably that you're paying for a sound generation and loudspeaker system which you're never going to use. I never use them but this doesn't bother me because I don't think they account for much of the overall cost of the instrument. And my wife, who's an organist, sometimes switches the thing on to bash through something and is happy to use the internal sounds. But, er... that's organists for you.
Best, Ian.
Animisha wrote:sjgcit wrote:It might help if you described what you don't like about the VPC1 action. And your budget.
I have just heard that with better action (compared to VPC1), it is easier to control dynamics and voicing. I spend a lot of practising time on technique, and with better action I hope to play more beautifully and expressively.
My budget... I could buy the Novus NO10S but it needs to be worth it, because I could also spend my money on other things.
This still does not answer the question, what you don't like about the VPC1.
Examples: Keys too heavy, audible volume differences between keys? (That's the points I don't like about my VPC1)-Heinrich
Actually, yes, I hope it does answer your question. I am quite happy with my VPC1, but as I work very hard on my technique, I would like an action that is more responsive. That is the reason why I am looking for a new controller or DP.
Thank you Ian for your answer! Very interesting.
Hopefully this isn't insultingly simple - worth considering perhaps?:
Is the piano seat high enough?
Try playing on a slightly elevated seat.
Is the piano on a perfectly flat surface?
I am very happy with my Studiologic NumaXPiano GT -- 88 notes weighted and nicely responsive. It's also a decent stage piano, with good grand sounds that I use often for warm up and a quick start free of the computer. Not Pianoteq 8, but good enough for scales and a gig.
I have a VPC1 but find it has heavy hammers. It's not heavy to depress the keys, but playing them faster runs into resistance, and I'm having some chronic pain due to some inflammation I already have from thumb arthritis and a muscle autoimmune condition. I'm looking into the PHA-50 action (on a Roland FP-90X for instance). Has anyone compared these two actions and found which one was lighter?
Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
The Lachnit MK23 is the best one, hopefully he makes the 88 key again.
I am also looking for a new controller.
I am currently playing a Roland RD-64 as my controller. It's a big upgrade in feel for me from the SL73 I was using. I really disliked the Fatar TP/100 keybed on the SL73 and it was also loud and clunky feeling. The Roland RD-64 is much better for me personally. I will continue to use the Roland RD-64 for gigging because it's the perfect size for that use case... as a stage piano controller, it fits right under my XK-5 organ.
However for home use which is for practicing and composition work, I would like to upgrade to a controller that feels better and has a lighter touch than the RD-64 which is a bit fatiguing for my hands.
It needs to have:
-88 keys
-graded weighted action
-tripple sensors
-very low minimum note off velocity
-half pedaling capability
-slab form factor (so not a N1X)
-I'd prefer it have little to no surface controls
-I'd prefer it have wooden core keys
-excellent integration with Pianoteq
It doesn't need to (necessarily) be:
-portable (it can be heavy)
-have triple pedals (I probably will not use the other two)
-have sounds
The only keyboard that fits my above wish list that I am aware of that is still commercially available is the Kawai VPC-1 and I have reservations about that model from all the things I have read.
I know I need to play things in order to feel them and I will probably make a pilgrimage to Sweetwater to test drive certain models once I have a short list together. I could use the forums' help with putting that list together.
Keybeds I do like:
-Yamaha CP88's keybed. I have only played this with it's own internal sounds, mostly the stage piano sounds so I don't know how it translates to VSTs but I loved the way this felt.
Keybeds I don't so much like:
-Rolands RD-2000.
Keybeds I really dislike:
-Fatar TP/100 (to me it's just awful)
I think I can rule out the Lachnit because it's not commercially available anymore.
I can also rule out the Vidal because it's unproven and a bit over my budget.
I'm guessing that what I want is either the MP11SE (but I'm paying for sounds and I'd probably wait for NAMM to be sure there are no worthwhile upgrades coming) or... something in a Yamaha portable piano, possibly the Roland FP-90X... but when it comes to some of the specs like minimum note off velocity, escarpment, etc... I don't know what measures up and what falls short when it comes to Pianoteq integration.
For instance, do the Yamaha P-525 or P-515 meet the criteria for Pianoteq controllers with note off velocity, etc...?
Is the Roland FP-90X the same keybed as the RD-2000 (which I don't like) or better and what about it's velocity and half pedaling data?
Any suggestions are welcome.
I am also looking for a new controller.
I am currently playing a Roland RD-64 as my controller. It's a big upgrade in feel for me from the SL73 I was using. I really disliked the Fatar TP/100 keybed on the SL73 and it was also loud and clunky feeling. The Roland RD-64 is much better for me personally. I will continue to use the Roland RD-64 for gigging because it's the perfect size for that use case... as a stage piano controller, it fits right under my XK-5 organ.
However for home use which is for practicing and composition work, I would like to upgrade to a controller that feels better and has a lighter touch than the RD-64 which is a bit fatiguing for my hands.
It needs to have:
-88 keys
-graded weighted action
-tripple sensors
-very low minimum note off velocity
-half pedaling capability
-slab form factor (so not a N1X)
-I'd prefer it have little to no surface controls
-I'd prefer it have wooden core keys
-excellent integration with PianoteqIt doesn't need to (necessarily) be:
-portable (it can be heavy)
-have triple pedals (I probably will not use the other two)
-have soundsThe only keyboard that fits my above wish list that I am aware of that is still commercially available is the Kawai VPC-1 and I have reservations about that model from all the things I have read.
I know I need to play things in order to feel them and I will probably make a pilgrimage to Sweetwater to test drive certain models once I have a short list together. I could use the forums' help with putting that list together.
Keybeds I do like:
-Yamaha CP88's keybed. I have only played this with it's own internal sounds, mostly the stage piano sounds so I don't know how it translates to VSTs but I loved the way this felt.Keybeds I don't so much like:
-Rolands RD-2000.Keybeds I really dislike:
-Fatar TP/100 (to me it's just awful)I think I can rule out the Lachnit because it's not commercially available anymore.
I can also rule out the Vidal because it's unproven and a bit over my budget.I'm guessing that what I want is either the MP11SE (but I'm paying for sounds and I'd probably wait for NAMM to be sure there are no worthwhile upgrades coming) or... something in a Yamaha portable piano, possibly the Roland FP-90X... but when it comes to some of the specs like minimum note off velocity, escarpment, etc... I don't know what measures up and what falls short when it comes to Pianoteq integration.
For instance, do the Yamaha P-525 or P-515 meet the criteria for Pianoteq controllers with note off velocity, etc...?
Is the Roland FP-90X the same keybed as the RD-2000 (which I don't like) or better and what about it's velocity and half pedaling data?
Any suggestions are welcome.
FP90X and RD2000 same keybed.
P525 no variable note off. P515 has variable note off. Not very Pianoteq friendly velocity-wise.
I have a Casio PX-S5000 but am going to check out January Namm 2025 to see if anyone releases something special.
Kaduk Piano have a Respons controller
There's a Phoenix Piano controller
Other than these there's much of a muchness.
Hope this helps,
Warmest regards,
Chris
Maybe a Kawaï MP-12 (without sticky keys) for next year ?
Maybe a Kawaï MP-12 (without sticky keys) for next year ?
This the main issue with the old GF1 action , by design some keys are going to be sticky at some stage , because the slip tape gets deformed overtime and adheres to the capstan which causes the sticky ness. It is not the result of bad batches or quality control , but purely a design issue which has been addressed with the GF3 action. Kawai has got actually a very good quality control and they address design issues in their keyboards with new releases . So as you say the MP12 maybe be the board the OP needs if it is ever released . I can’t think of any other slab that fits the bill here .
Yamaha is ruled out given all current slabs with wooden keys ( CP88 & P525) send a fixed 64 note off velocity value
Roland is ruled out because the OP doesnt like the feel of the PHA-50
Casio is ruled out , as current slabs don’t have a triple sensor . They are good keyboards though but not for classical music because of the very short pivot .
Studiologic hasn’t been mentioned but given the OP doesn’t like fatar actions either , the possible choice is the Numa X GT but there has been a few reports complaining about midi inconsistencies and noticeable differences between black and white keys , so it might not be your ideal midi controller.
j'utilise le VPC1 depuis plusieurs années, j'en suis très satisfait et je guette tous les ans la sortie du VPC2 pour améliorer le 1 , mais rien ne vient, dommage
Borealis wrote:Maybe a Kawaï MP-12 (without sticky keys) for next year ?
This the main issue with the old GF1 action , by design some keys are going to be sticky at some stage , because the slip tape gets deformed overtime and adheres to the capstan which causes the sticky ness. It is not the result of bad batches or quality control , but purely a design issue which has been addressed with the GF3 action. Kawai has got actually a very good quality control and they address design issues in their keyboards with new releases . So as you say the MP12 maybe be the board the OP needs if it is ever released . I can’t think of any other slab that fits the bill here .
Yamaha is ruled out given all current slabs with wooden keys ( CP88 & P525) send a fixed 64 note off velocity value
Roland is ruled out because the OP doesnt like the feel of the PHA-50
Casio is ruled out , as current slabs don’t have a triple sensor . They are good keyboards though but not for classical music because of the very short pivot .
Studiologic hasn’t been mentioned but given the OP doesn’t like fatar actions either , the possible choice is the Numa X GT but there has been a few reports complaining about midi inconsistencies and noticeable differences between black and white keys , so it might not be your ideal midi controller.
@Pianistically Thanks for the comprehensive answers!
Does the MP11 SE use the slip-tape as part of it's construction or just the VPC-1? I was under the impression the MP11SE was the GF action but not the GF3 action. If that is true, what keyboard uses GF3 or is that a future product yet unreleased?
Does the P515 also send fixed 64 note off velocity values or just the CP88 and P525? I have read elsewhere confusing information that would suggest the P515 sent 1-127 values for note off and it seems odd they would have limited that feature to just 64 between the P515 and P525 models.
Pianistically wrote:Borealis wrote:Maybe a Kawaï MP-12 (without sticky keys) for next year ?
This the main issue with the old GF1 action , by design some keys are going to be sticky at some stage , because the slip tape gets deformed overtime and adheres to the capstan which causes the sticky ness. It is not the result of bad batches or quality control , but purely a design issue which has been addressed with the GF3 action. Kawai has got actually a very good quality control and they address design issues in their keyboards with new releases . So as you say the MP12 maybe be the board the OP needs if it is ever released . I can’t think of any other slab that fits the bill here .
Yamaha is ruled out given all current slabs with wooden keys ( CP88 & P525) send a fixed 64 note off velocity value
Roland is ruled out because the OP doesnt like the feel of the PHA-50
Casio is ruled out , as current slabs don’t have a triple sensor . They are good keyboards though but not for classical music because of the very short pivot .
Studiologic hasn’t been mentioned but given the OP doesn’t like fatar actions either , the possible choice is the Numa X GT but there has been a few reports complaining about midi inconsistencies and noticeable differences between black and white keys , so it might not be your ideal midi controller.@Pianistically Thanks for the comprehensive answers!
Does the MP11 SE use the slip-tape as part of it's construction or just the VPC-1? I was under the impression the MP11SE was the GF action but not the GF3 action. If that is true, what keyboard uses GF3 or is that a future product yet unreleased?
Does the P515 also send fixed 64 note off velocity values or just the CP88 and P525? I have read elsewhere confusing information that would suggest the P515 sent 1-127 values for note off and it seems odd they would have limited that feature to just 64 between the P515 and P525 models.
both MP11SE ( GF1 )and VPC1 (RM3 Grand 2) use slip tape but based on my own experience as I currently have the MP11 and had a VPC1 , the slip tape affects more MP11 users than VPC1 because of different geometry but in both cases the design is flawed in term of longevity and consistency of output of the action . ( shame as very good feeling for both keyboards , specially the MP11) , the problem was not remediated with GF2 action but with GF3 action which you find on the top line CA701 , CA901 which completely got rid of the slip tape . Note that you can replace the slip tape when you face the issue of sticky keys , it is a 5 hours job , you can find the slip tape in Germany online vendors , they also propose felt as a substitute instead of the original slip tape , it’s more resistant but change the response of the keys . I didn’t like the feeling when I replaced damaged slip tape with the felt and implemented back new original slip tape . I perform the operation at least once a year , but I play extensively, , about 6 hours/day so given the root cause of the fault , degradation is proportional to hours of playing so occasional players might be absolutely fine with it . Internal sound bank is very nice .
I've been in the same boat for quite a long time, let me sum it up my search and conclusion quickly:
If you're picky, there's nothing in the slab realm that will fulfill your needs as much as some cabinet style DP may do.
I also craved a slab with a good action, variable key-off, long keys, good sounds etc. The MP11 was the closest option but since I came from a CA97 and suffered myself the sliptape issue I didn't want to hear from Kawai at least for now.
Also another issue with the Kawai is that its MIDI implementation is done in such a way that it doesn't let you easily control VST (dynamically speaking), that's a huge turn-off if you're intending to use pianoteq and similar software.
After a lot of trying, Roland has IMO the best MIDI implementation to use as a controller, like it or hate it.
Options here are PHA50 and Hybrid-PHA50, same mechanism having the latter a longer pivot point (26cm) and offset pivot for black keys, just like actual acoustics have, that may not sound important but it does indeed let you think how much these guys cared about details, this offset helps have a balanced touch when playing black keys so they don't feels easier or softer than the whites.
Ended up buying an LX706, cheapest model with the aforementioned action, can't be happier with the touch, it's not love at first sight, every time I've tried it in the shop I was disappointed and thought it's out of my list, still gave it an option because it made most sense mathematically and I proved myself right. Plenty of possibilities to adjust the feeling (internal touch curve adjustable in 100 steps instead of 3 preset options).
Piano sound on this Roland is okeyish yet not enjoyable for me, cabinet makes a beautiful furniture but no mobility whatsoever, sometimes I think what an overkill just to have a MIDI controller with a good action.
Manufacturers are smart, they never trickle down their best actions to the portable segment (except Kawai with the MP11 at their time), that leaves the cabinet style market alive which is probably more profitable.
There are many nice slabs if you accept compromises, if not, the you better accept the reality and go for a nice cabinet style with good action and MIDI.
At the time I also tried MIDI response on many brands, turns out best implementation was Roland followed by Casio (GP series) and Yamaha if that helps, note-off was variable only in the Roland and one of the others I can't remember well.
Sorry for the long message, I was hesitant to write it, so much good advice from the fellas around here but I wanted to give you my insights.
Good luck,
David
Greetings. My sincere thanks to all the posters on this important thread. This is the only thread I check daily -- sadly; I’ve become obsessed with finding “the best” PTQ MIDI controller for 2 situations:
• My practice room
• mobile – for travel, gigs, and family events
I too, look forward to NAMM 2025 – and for further thoughts from those who enjoy PTQ as much as I do. Best to you!
_BM
I've been in the same boat for quite a long time, let me sum it up my search and conclusion quickly:
If you're picky, there's nothing in the slab realm that will fulfill your needs as much as some cabinet style DP may do.
I also craved a slab with a good action, variable key-off, long keys, good sounds etc. The MP11 was the closest option but since I came from a CA97 and suffered myself the sliptape issue I didn't want to hear from Kawai at least for now.
Also another issue with the Kawai is that its MIDI implementation is done in such a way that it doesn't let you easily control VST (dynamically speaking), that's a huge turn-off if you're intending to use pianoteq and similar software.
After a lot of trying, Roland has IMO the best MIDI implementation to use as a controller, like it or hate it.
Options here are PHA50 and Hybrid-PHA50, same mechanism having the latter a longer pivot point (26cm) and offset pivot for black keys, just like actual acoustics have, that may not sound important but it does indeed let you think how much these guys cared about details, this offset helps have a balanced touch when playing black keys so they don't feels easier or softer than the whites.
Ended up buying an LX706, cheapest model with the aforementioned action, can't be happier with the touch, it's not love at first sight, every time I've tried it in the shop I was disappointed and thought it's out of my list, still gave it an option because it made most sense mathematically and I proved myself right. Plenty of possibilities to adjust the feeling (internal touch curve adjustable in 100 steps instead of 3 preset options).
Piano sound on this Roland is okeyish yet not enjoyable for me, cabinet makes a beautiful furniture but no mobility whatsoever, sometimes I think what an overkill just to have a MIDI controller with a good action.
Manufacturers are smart, they never trickle down their best actions to the portable segment (except Kawai with the MP11 at their time), that leaves the cabinet style market alive which is probably more profitable.
There are many nice slabs if you accept compromises, if not, the you better accept the reality and go for a nice cabinet style with good action and MIDI.
At the time I also tried MIDI response on many brands, turns out best implementation was Roland followed by Casio (GP series) and Yamaha if that helps, note-off was variable only in the Roland and one of the others I can't remember well.
Sorry for the long message, I was hesitant to write it, so much good advice from the fellas around here but I wanted to give you my insights.
Good luck,
David
Greetings. My sincere thanks to all the posters on this important thread. This is the only thread I check daily -- sadly; I’ve become obsessed with finding “the best” PTQ MIDI controller for 2 situations:
• My practice room
• mobile – for travel, gigs, and family eventsI too, look forward to NAMM 2025 – and for further thoughts from those who enjoy PTQ as much as I do. Best to you!
_BM
You might be interested in this blog post:
https://www.opussciencecollective.com/p...-bechstein
I have just acquired a Casio GP 400 a few days ago, and I must say I'm really pleased with it. A massive upgrade over my previous Yamaha CLP-470 which was great in its own right nonetheless. The Bechstein action on the Casio is just superb. Now this might be a really wacky idea, but I guess it might be very possible to use a Casio hybrid in your practice room, and then undo the four screws underneath to take the top part with you on gigs as it contains the action, speakers and in/out/midi ports etc. The only thing you'd need is a very sturdy stand and a three pedal block midi controller. The top part is pretty heavy though, you might need a friend/roadie to give you a hand!
I have the Roland FP90, and I really love the key feel. It's about 5 years old, and it's been very dependable. I did have one in-warranty repair in year 2. It has the same PHA-50 action as Roland's top-of-the-line digital grands and their replacement, the FP-90X.
I have the Roland FP90, and I really love the key feel. It's about 5 years old, and it's been very dependable. I did have one in-warranty repair in year 2. It has the same PHA-50 action as Roland's top-of-the-line digital grands and their replacement, the FP-90X.
I have a VPC1. I'm curious how the PHA-50 action compares. Have you played on a VPC1? I'm interested in
- weight (something resembling a real grand would be nice)
- what I call "hold-down" force or the "up weight" - how much force it takes to hold down a key once pressed to keep it from coming up
- repetition speed
- overall subjective impression how much it resembles a real grand
- overall subject impression of how nice it is to play: to control musical expression, dynamics, and phrasing for instance
Thanks, Mike
I have a VPC1. I'm curious how the PHA-50 action compares. Have you played on a VPC1? I'm interested in
- weight (something resembling a real grand would be nice)
- what I call "hold-down" force or the "up weight" - how much force it takes to hold down a key once pressed to keep it from coming up
- repetition speed
- overall subjective impression how much it resembles a real grand
- overall subject impression of how nice it is to play: to control musical expression, dynamics, and phrasing for instance
Thanks, Mike
When I bought the FP90 five years ago, I did play some top of line Kawais and the most expensive Casio. I thought it compared favorably to the Kawaii. I thought the Casio felt too light.
You should test the keyboards out for yourself.
I liked that Roland's are dependable, have good warranties, and that there's a factory authorized repair place nearby.
I'm a pop pianist. I don't do amazing acrobatics on the piano. All I can say is that with Pianoteq and my FP90, I can really get in the zone and play with soul.
Is there any controller or DP with a better action than VPC1 apart from the hybrid pianos such as Kawai Novus NV10 or Yamaha NU1X?
Buying one of those would be overkill because I am happy with Pianoteq and I have great monitors.But is there any upgrade I can make? I work so hard on my technique during my lessons and it would be great to have better action than the VPC1.
Hi Animisha,
I was just curious whether you found anything that you like yet, or whether you were still waiting until after NAMM to look more seriously.
When I was looking about a year ago, I was needing something pretty quickly and couldn't wait so got an RD-2000, which has the PHA50 action in it. Some don't like it but I really do, very smooth, not light, very quiet. As it turns out for me, waiting wouldn't have gotten me a whole lot other than some minor software upgrades. It's hard to know what may be coming, could be a little, could be a lot.
I have heard a lot of good things about the RH3 action that's in the ES920 and the MP7SE. (I'm thinking the MP11SE has a a GF action, a bit more advanced, and also more expensive.) A few players that I've followed online also speak very highly of the Fatar TP/400 as found in the Numa X Piano GT. I have yet to even see one of those in person.
Honestly, there are some really good choices out there compared to the kinds of instruments really good but not concert musicians got to play on 70 or 80 years ago.
I was just curious. I know it's really a very subjective thing. It would be great if you could actually play on each of the prospective actions before having to buy one.
Just like many people check insurance rates before they buy a car, I would check the warranties for each brand you're exploring and what factory authorized repair centers you have nearby or at least in your country for each brand.