Topic by keyrunner

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Topic: Problem with preset volume via midi

Good morning everyone, as per title I am experiencing a problem handling the volume via midi.

Briefly:
I have created on pianoteq a midi map containing all the parameters and presets I need to manage the programme in a live situation. Among these parameters is obviously included the VOLUME cc7.
All parameters and presets are channeled uniquely on midi channel 3 corresponding to one of my zones set on the master which in this case is numaXpiano 88.

The problem that has arisen is as follows: When recalling the various presets via Numaxpiano 88 these almost never respect the value stored in the master, but often retain the value originally stored in the PT preset.
The strange thing is that they still sometimes accept the value sent from the master.
Once a preset has been selected on PT via the master (and we hear and see from the graphics that the correct information from the master has not been set), if we move the volume parameter on the midi zone of the Xpiano again, it immediately returns to the correct value.

I tried connecting the Midi-Ox programme to the xpiano to check the data actually transmitted by the keyboard when changing the performance on the cannal attributed to pianoteq, and there seems to be nothing wrong...

For the sake of clarity I report this data the data transmitted by the numaXpiano:

Ch 3 All notes off
Ch 3 All controllers off
Ch3 Program channge 22 (the value depends on what is set in the numaXpiano patch)
Ch 3 Controller 7 volume Value 75 (value depends on what is set in the numaXpiano patch)
Ch 3 Conntroller 10 Value 64 (value depends on what is set in the numaXpiano patch)

The only thing I can think of is that there may be a conflict between the All controllers off information and the next value of the controllers set by the master...
These values arrive chronologically after the ‘resets’ anyway, so they should be interpreted correctly, Perhaps Pianoteq's reaction is not fast enough to recognise and execute the data correctly?

Of course this is just a guess..

If someone could help me, I would really appreciate it..

Ciao

Antonio

Reply by julien

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Re: Problem with preset volume via midi

keyrunner wrote:

Perhaps Pianoteq's reaction is not fast enough to recognise and execute the data correctly

Yes, unfortunately this is most likely the cause of the issue, you're loading a preset via program change and then immediately change the volume, before Pianoteq had time to actually load the preset. It is a Pianoteq issue, but it is also quite complicated to fix.

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Reply by keyrunner

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Re: Problem with preset volume via midi

julien wrote:
keyrunner wrote:

Perhaps Pianoteq's reaction is not fast enough to recognise and execute the data correctly

Yes, unfortunately this is most likely the cause of the issue, you're loading a preset via program change and then immediately change the volume, before Pianoteq had time to actually load the preset. It is a Pianoteq issue, but it is also quite complicated to fix.


Wow, I am so sad to hear these words....
It means I can't use Pianoteq in live performances....
I hope you will be able to find a solution soon, perhaps by running some sort of buffer so that midi data can also be released at a later time, or by giving different priorities to different types of data received...
An immediate attuation of the volume control is not required, but at least that the data set even if slightly delayed is correctly executed...

A sort of user midi-priority filter was possible to choose what kind of midi message will have priority over the others might be another solution... I hope I'm not talking nonsense...

For the moment I won't be able to take Pianoteq on stage for the time being... too bad...

I will confidently wait for some improvement in this regard..

Pianoteq is a wonderful tool, and you equally wonderful programmers, I am sure you will find a solution somehow.

ciao

Antonio

Reply by dv

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Re: Problem with preset volume via midi

keyrunner wrote:
julien wrote:
keyrunner wrote:

Perhaps Pianoteq's reaction is not fast enough to recognise and execute the data correctly

Yes, unfortunately this is most likely the cause of the issue, you're loading a preset via program change and then immediately change the volume, before Pianoteq had time to actually load the preset. It is a Pianoteq issue, but it is also quite complicated to fix.


Wow, I am so sad to hear these words....
It means I can't use Pianoteq in live performances....

Ciao Antonio,

Really? You can't use pianoteq because of this? Can you just program a delay in what is sent from the Numa? That should not be that hard to do but obviously I don't have the Numa so I don't know.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Reply by keyrunner

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Re: Problem with preset volume via midi

Unfortunately numaXpiano does not have this possibility.. 
All the midi data of the zones are sent immediately when the performance is selected... furthermore, for the zones assigned to external midi, it is not even possible to name them, so the display only shows the words MIDI USB or DIN, the channel number, the volume set and the excursion on the keyboard.
When you have 3 or 4 zones assigned to external midi on the same performance, it is difficult to recognise on the fly which VST they are associated with, after which you should set the volume value by hand using the encoder dedicated to the chosen zone.

The problem I've been experiencing for some time is that there seem to be few users using more or less complex setups... 

If I only played Jazz or any other genre where I could use 1 or 2 simultaneous sounds at the most and that in a live session I didn't need so many sounds, the problem would be minimal... just select the patch, possibly set the volume of the external instrument (which unfortunately is VST and not hardware where I could adjust the volume on the fly)...
If, on the other hand, as in my case you also perform repertoires ranging from pop to dance, progressive etc., then each song requires the most appropriate sound possible, which means a lot of sounds and the impossibility, as for example in the case of dance songs, of editing some parameters on the fly because if the audience dances the songs must be performed without interruptions between one and the other...

As you can see I don't want to be fussy, it's just a matter of actual necessity...

I'm thinking how I can delay the transmission of midi data to the tablet... I have a programmable midi box but it seems rather complicated... and anyway we're always adding equipment which only increases the possibility of error...


Since midi has been around for a lifetime, especially the basic codes should now be handled without problems... 

I understand that pianoteq has a myriad of parameters to manage. as I said it is a splendid instrument and over the years it has achieved a remarkable result ... I've had it since the first versions and I've always wanted to take it with me in live situations,..
At the time I couldn't do it because the computer didn't have enough power and it was inconvenient to carry a dedicated sound card with you...
Today all this is made possible and simplified...  But there's always a little thing that still doesn't go..

I repeat, I don't want to be polemical or pretentious.   I'm just trying to solve my problem.

I realize that most of the users here are classical pianists or in any case dedicated more than anything else to the piano.  So at most I think they will use Pianoteq as well as for the studio or piano performance, or for recording where there are no problems in programming the midi codes in the order and times desired...

It may be that the fantastic guys of modartt with their due time will be able to find some sort of solution, or even a simple improvement of the midi flow.

I think this could benefit everyone a little...

Excuse me if I have been long-winded. I'm just trying to explain it from my point of view.

Good evening and good music to all..

Ciao

Antonio