Topic: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

We we will have a classical concert in a very noble old church. Unfortunately a grand piano is not available.

I am planning a setup with good Kawai keyboard as the midi input, Pianoteq 8 as the piano and Bose L1 Pro as the PA. I already have Reaper and Waves IR1 Convolution Reverb with lots of different room models.

Have anyone tried a setup like this? Any advice about Pianoteq settings? What kind of room model might sound good in a church? Or is any room reverb needed?

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Jutzi wrote:

We we will have a classical concert in a very noble old church. Unfortunately a grand piano is not available.

I am planning a setup with good Kawai keyboard as the midi input, Pianoteq 8 as the piano and Bose L1 Pro as the PA. I already have Reaper and Waves IR1 Convolution Reverb with lots of different room models.

Have anyone tried a setup like this? Any advice about Pianoteq settings? What kind of room model might sound good in a church? Or is any room reverb needed?

A Steinway has no built-in reverb ;-) and in 99% of cases there's too much reverb for piano in churches, so in principle it's better to try without reverb first.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Luc Henrion wrote:

A Steinway has no built-in reverb ;-) and in 99% of cases there's too much reverb for piano in churches, so in principle it's better to try without reverb first.

Any advice about the mic setup and other Pianoteq settings?

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Jutzi wrote:
Luc Henrion wrote:

A Steinway has no built-in reverb ;-) and in 99% of cases there's too much reverb for piano in churches, so in principle it's better to try without reverb first.

Any advice about the mic setup and other Pianoteq settings?

Try a mono (or near-mono) setting to start with, and be careful with equalization: L1s have plenty of power but aren't known for being very neutral, especially in the low mids. A typical "feature" of most mini-Line arrays.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Definitely try totally dry first.  However, you may want a very light reverb (small room) to give it a (very, very light) touch of warmth or presence.  When working with orchestras from samples or individual recordings being merged into an ensemble, you generally want two layers of reverb to simulate the difference between the "stage" sound within the hall and the "hall" sound itself.

For mic position, I agree to start with mono and see what it does.  Keep your signal chain as simple as possible and only "fix" major issues.  Being that you're in such a good space, give the space as much chance to do you favors as possible.  If you go with custom mic placements in PTQ, I'd go with a simple microphone on axis with the lid open for starters and experiment from there.  You want there be enough space for the virtual microphones to even out of the piano sound, as being too present (and close to the hammers) will likely mess with the realism you're going for with classical (e.g. not an issue with pop vocals).

If you're using multiple Bose speakers, then I'd recommend you place them in the room in the position that the virtual microphones are in PTQ.  If only using one, that's less of an issue but still a consideration (it depends on how much that particular Bose unit that I've never used myself adds "space" or "width" to the sound image of its input--trying it out if you can will be far more helpful than any of my theoretical ramblings).

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Maybe stating the obvious, but don't judge the sound from your playing perspective. If you don't have a helper, just play a demo and walk around the church to figure out how it sounds from different listening points

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Very good advice, thank you all. Hopefully we can find good testing places before the performance. Only a couple of hours available in the church where the concert will be.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

One last thing: if there are other musicians, and unless the L1s are being used to amplify something else, I suggest placing them where the piano would have been in the orchestra, so that the sound “emanates” from where it should be. This is a technique I've often used with instruments whose acoustic level is insufficient (oud, saz, or even guitar...).

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

I have recently been to a church where the sound was too loud. I was sitting directly in front of one of the speakers and I had to move because of the distraction it caused. The music was vocal with a few supporting instruments. This was an old "cathedral" type of church meant for a pipe organ which always sounded very good.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

levinite wrote:

I have recently been to a church where the sound was too loud. I was sitting directly in front of one of the speakers and I had to move because of the distraction it caused. The music was vocal with a few supporting instruments. This was an old "cathedral" type of church meant for a pipe organ which always sounded very good.

If you had a grand piano close to you, would it have been too loud?

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Let's not forget the real physic world.

The place where speakers will be positioned and the direction they point is very important.

Is the kind of church where people sing along?

Last edited by Beto-Music (27-08-2024 18:05)

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Beto-Music wrote:

Let's not forget the real physic world.

The place where speakers will be positioned and the direction they point is very important.

Is the kind of church where people sing along?

Just performers, people listening.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Jutzi wrote:
levinite wrote:

I have recently been to a church where the sound was too loud. I was sitting directly in front of one of the speakers and I had to move because of the distraction it caused. The music was vocal with a few supporting instruments. This was an old "cathedral" type of church meant for a pipe organ which always sounded very good.

If you had a grand piano close to you, would it have been too loud?

I just wanted to express my personal experience, but to answer you, there is no way I can know this for certain. I expect a piano might be ok because the direct sound would be much louder than the reflections and have a single source. I also believe it would depend on the type of music played and its tempo.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

So you get the chance of a very clear sound with no need to be loud.
Hos many musicians, what instruments? Is the piano sound the main instrument?

Jutzi wrote:

Just performers, people listening.

Last edited by Beto-Music (28-08-2024 05:38)

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

levinite wrote:
Jutzi wrote:
levinite wrote:

I have recently been to a church where the sound was too loud. I was sitting directly in front of one of the speakers and I had to move because of the distraction it caused. The music was vocal with a few supporting instruments. This was an old "cathedral" type of church meant for a pipe organ which always sounded very good.

If you had a grand piano close to you, would it have been too loud?

I just wanted to express my personal experience, but to answer you, there is no way I can know this for certain. I expect a piano might be ok because the direct sound would be much louder than the reflections and have a single source. I also believe it would depend on the type of music played and its tempo.

Certainly loudspeaker is more annoying if too close. Real instrument can also be annoying, but it should not be a surprise.

Re: Best Pianoteq sound quality in a church

Beto-Music wrote:

So you get the chance of a very clear sound with no need to be loud.
Hos many musicians, what instruments? Is the piano sound the main instrument?

Choir, soloists and a piano. Should be quite easy to find a good place for the loudspeaker.