Topic by chanjp

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Topic: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

Hello everyone! I saved up, and finally bought myself Pianoteq 8, which I want to use with the Chromatone-CT312, an isomorphic keyboard with MIDI in and MIDI out. I bought a generic MIDI to USB adapter for this project, and unfortunately, there are some stuck keys or unplayed sounds when I try to play it.

I have an Arturia Keystep for comparison, and plugging it into my computer and bashing every single key simultaneously just works, so I am wondering what I am doing wrong with my Chromatone.

After searching around, I finally stumbled onto this video where a Pianoteq connection was made to the Chromatone and the rest of the video shows exactly what I am looking for:

https://youtu.be/fpxaBEne0Hs?t=176

I am relatively new to using a MIDI controller, and would appreciate any tips or tricks specific to the Chromatone-CT312 or devices from its age to get the best out of Pianoteq.

Reply by hebele

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Re: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

chanjp wrote:

Hello everyone! I saved up, and finally bought myself Pianoteq 8, which I want to use with the Chromatone-CT312, an isomorphic keyboard with MIDI in and MIDI out. I bought a generic MIDI to USB adapter for this project, and unfortunately, there are some stuck keys or unplayed sounds when I try to play it.

I have an Arturia Keystep for comparison, and plugging it into my computer and bashing every single key simultaneously just works, so I am wondering what I am doing wrong with my Chromatone.

After searching around, I finally stumbled onto this video where a Pianoteq connection was made to the Chromatone and the rest of the video shows exactly what I am looking for:

https://youtu.be/fpxaBEne0Hs?t=176

I am relatively new to using a MIDI controller, and would appreciate any tips or tricks specific to the Chromatone-CT312 or devices from its age to get the best out of Pianoteq.

I would monitor the midi log in Pianoteq. As long as your device sends standard midi note on/off messages, it should work. If some of those messages are missing then unfortunately you have to troubleshoot the hardware and/or connections. Good luck. That thing looks fun

Reply by chanjp

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Re: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

I would monitor the midi log in Pianoteq.

Thanks! I carefully looked at what was happening, and it seems that with a single keypress, Note On and Note Off was perfect. Two simultaneous keys resulted in one of the keys sometimes not sending a Note Off signal.

Three keys and it's now stuck most of the time without a Note Off signal!

But prior to this, when I did calibration, Pianoteq stated "Apparently, your keyboard does not send NOTE-OFF velocity when the keys are released," Is there a way to force Pianoteq to do an auto note off? I realise this is not ideal, but the sound is already way better using the Pianoteq synthesizer compared to the one built into the Chromatone.

That thing looks fun

Oh yeah! It is. Really helped me understand wholetones and halftones and the relationship between notes more intimately. I am trying to learn a piece on the Chromatone first, and then moving to my Roland FP30X later, I was able to play the piece slightly faster than if I had started off purely with the piano first.

The Lumatone would be a nice upgrade, but I will probably need to save for a decade before I can splurge on that isomorphic keyboard.

Reply by hebele

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Re: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

chanjp wrote:

I would monitor the midi log in Pianoteq.

Thanks! I carefully looked at what was happening, and it seems that with a single keypress, Note On and Note Off was perfect. Two simultaneous keys resulted in one of the keys sometimes not sending a Note Off signal.

Three keys and it's now stuck most of the time without a Note Off signal!

But prior to this, when I did calibration, Pianoteq stated "Apparently, your keyboard does not send NOTE-OFF velocity when the keys are released," Is there a way to force Pianoteq to do an auto note off? I realise this is not ideal, but the sound is already way better using the Pianoteq synthesizer compared to the one built into the Chromatone.

That thing looks fun

Oh yeah! It is. Really helped me understand wholetones and halftones and the relationship between notes more intimately. I am trying to learn a piece on the Chromatone first, and then moving to my Roland FP30X later, I was able to play the piece slightly faster than if I had started off purely with the piano first.

The Lumatone would be a nice upgrade, but I will probably need to save for a decade before I can splurge on that isomorphic keyboard.

I think note off messages are necessary. Midi note off messages have a velocity value. Some keyboards/pianos send a constant velocity value (eg: zero) in note off messages. So pianoteq warns about it cannot use that velocity value for modelling. I think it sets the note off velocity curve accordingly. But it still expects note off messages.

How are you connecting chromatone to pianoteq? From its manual, I see it only has DIN midi in & out. I would try using a different cable, different usb port, or maybe connecting chromatone into keystep via DIN midi then keystep into pc/mobile via USB midi. Just to rule out connection problems.

If all fails, you might still set up a VST to use only note on messages to generate sound. Not sure if this is possible with pianoteq. You might set up your patch so that all notes have same sustain duration. Or sustain duration depends on note on velocity. I don't think it would behave like a piano.

Good luck.

Reply by hebele

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Re: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

chanjp wrote:

I would monitor the midi log in Pianoteq.

Thanks! I carefully looked at what was happening, and it seems that with a single keypress, Note On and Note Off was perfect. Two simultaneous keys resulted in one of the keys sometimes not sending a Note Off signal.

Three keys and it's now stuck most of the time without a Note Off signal!

But prior to this, when I did calibration, Pianoteq stated "Apparently, your keyboard does not send NOTE-OFF velocity when the keys are released," Is there a way to force Pianoteq to do an auto note off? I realise this is not ideal, but the sound is already way better using the Pianoteq synthesizer compared to the one built into the Chromatone.

That thing looks fun

Oh yeah! It is. Really helped me understand wholetones and halftones and the relationship between notes more intimately. I am trying to learn a piece on the Chromatone first, and then moving to my Roland FP30X later, I was able to play the piece slightly faster than if I had started off purely with the piano first.

The Lumatone would be a nice upgrade, but I will probably need to save for a decade before I can splurge on that isomorphic keyboard.

After replying I saw this note on the Chromatone manual:

When you play the external MIDI instrument that does not correspond Controlchange All Notes Off (CC#123) with Position Quick Control, the note may not be cut off. Please use the MIDI instrument that corresponds Controlchange All Notes Off(CC#123).

It is a bit cryptic. But maybe it sends a "CC#123 All Notes Off" message in some situations?

Reply by dv

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Re: Looking for Chromatone setup tips with Pianoteq 8

hebele wrote:

It is a bit cryptic. But maybe it sends a "CC#123 All Notes Off" message in some situations?

If that were the case, chanjp would have notes stopping sounding when still holding them, whereas in the first message it seems the problem is the reverse?

In any case, in Pianoteq one can click the "option" button and select the MIDI panel. That will show everything that is received and let one assess what happen when this problem occurs.

I speculate that the MIDI-to-USB cable is faulty (a very common situation, unfortunately) and does not send some of the messages. As already suggested I also strongly suggest to try to route MIDI from the Chromatone into the Arturia (assuming the latter does MIDI-through-USB, but it's a quick check) and confirm this hypothesis: if it works, faulty converter cable; if it has the same problem, the Chromatone is defective.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(