Topic by kawai_user3535

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  • kawai_user3535
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Topic: my experience with Pianoteq on Kawai NV5s

I've benefited a lot as a reader of these forums, and now I'd like to share my experience as a new Kawai NV5s hybrid piano owner, and a new fan of Pianoteq, in case it's useful to anyone else in a similar situation.

Plugged into my Kawai, I find the Pianoteq models to be not necessarily better or more realistic in sound quality than the Kawai's onboard piano sounds (which can be very good with a little bit of tweaking), but much more alive, customizable, and full of character and variety. I'm so thrilled with the sounds, I feel no need to further explore any other VST's -- this is close enough to perfect as is. These impression are based on my experience of using my instrument's onboard speaker system, which includes a spruce soundboard on the back with transducers.

Very recently I've read a lot about the benefits of headphones and I decided to invest in giving them a try. I ordered the Beyerdynamics DT990 along with a Schiit Modi+ DAC and tube amp. When these things arrived, I only had to play for a few minutes to realize how much I prefer the NV5's built-in speaker system to these headphones. Yes the headphones improve the clarity in some ways, but I'm finding they expose and emphasize the artificial nature of the Pianoteq sounds rather than bring out any new beauty or enjoyment.

For frame of reference, I'm playing only baroque and classical, generally with little or no damper pedal. Someone who does a lot of pedaling may have a very different experience.

And so the $500 lesson I've just learned, is that the NV5's speaker system seem to be excellent, either using onboard piano sounds or with Pianoteq, certainly on par with the new DAC/amp/headphones setup and indeed more immersive and authentic-sounding, maybe in large part because of the wooden soundboard that helps things come to life a little more.

Last edited by kawai_user3535 (26-06-2024 23:52)

Reply by robinlb

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  • robinlb
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Re: my experience with Pianoteq on Kawai NV5s

Yes, the Ptq modeling is perfect for soundboard speakers.

Reply by snurrfint

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Re: my experience with Pianoteq on Kawai NV5s

I don't know how much the soundboard helps. The pianoteq model accounts for the vibrations in the soundboard already as it is a model of the whole acoustic output of a piano, but maybe there is something to it. I would love to try it.

But what I definitely agree with is that pianoteq comes to life when you output it through a good speaker system. I have never ever liked the experience of playing piano with headphones. As you said, it enhances the artificial element to it, the sound is too direct and precise if you like. The piano sound needs air and surfaces to bounce off to really come to life imo. My Yamaha CSP-170 have a huge subwoofer that makes my whole body vibrate when I play a deep base-note (on high volume), almost like a real piano would do. I almost always turn off reverb and delay as it only makes the piano seem more distant. I mean, my own living room has its own reverb and character.

Most important lesson. Don't be afraid of loudness. Not only is a high volume helping you not to play to hard on the keyboard, it also helps you experience the room and to feel the vibrations in the air, which adds to the experience.

Pianoteq does this better than any other library I've come across. It almost sound more realistic the more volume you add while sampled (the ones I've tried) pianos feel the opposite to me.

Youtuber Phil Best explains it well. https://youtu.be/ViQD4BUgipg

Reply by sharpnine

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Re: my experience with Pianoteq on Kawai NV5s

snurrfint wrote:

I don't know how much the soundboard helps. The pianoteq model accounts for the vibrations in the soundboard already as it is a model of the whole acoustic output of a piano, but maybe there is something to it. I would love to try it.

But what I definitely agree with is that pianoteq comes to life when you output it through a good speaker system. I have never ever liked the experience of playing piano with headphones. As you said, it enhances the artificial element to it, the sound is too direct and precise if you like. The piano sound needs air and surfaces to bounce off to really come to life imo. My Yamaha CSP-170 have a huge subwoofer that makes my whole body vibrate when I play a deep base-note (on high volume), almost like a real piano would do. I almost always turn off reverb and delay as it only makes the piano seem more distant. I mean, my own living room has its own reverb and character.

Most important lesson. Don't be afraid of loudness. Not only is a high volume helping you not to play to hard on the keyboard, it also helps you experience the room and to feel the vibrations in the air, which adds to the experience.

Pianoteq does this better than any other library I've come across. It almost sound more realistic the more volume you add while sampled (the ones I've tried) pianos feel the opposite to me.

Youtuber Phil Best explains it well. https://youtu.be/ViQD4BUgipg

Great comments, snurrfint!

I agree with all that. I had purchased and played a number of sampled pianos before I tried pianoteq. From the moment I started playing it, I knew I had found my favorite. The liveness was there, that all the sampled pianos are missing. I really feel like it's a physical instrument. Sampled pianos may be beautiful sounding, but I don't have that same sense of an instrument I'm controlling. I've been playing acoustic pianos for 50 years, professionally, so the instrument means a lot. I keep a number of sampled pianos (including Noire and some of the other NI pianos), with the idea that I do all my playing with pianoteq, and if I want to make a recording I can render the midi recording (I made with pianoteq) through some other virtual pianos and see if any sound better for that particular context. But I know my playing is better through pianoteq. And generally it holds its own against sampled pianos just fine in recordings. Bosendorfer is my new favorite.