Topic by c4

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Topic: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

As subject says, my old YDP outputs low MIDI velocity. If I record a simple piece, the mean and max velocity is around 50. If I record the same piece on my crappy-keybed Novation Launchkey Mini, the mean velocity is around 60, max velocity more than 100.

I ran the velocity curve calibration assistant in Pianoteq. The signal chain for the YDP is MIDI cable to Focusrite Scarlett MIDI in, it should be OK. I am quite the piano noob, but understand I am missing out on dynamic range, even though I can get enough "loudness" out of the recordings.

I have been looking at the Roland FP-10, which is affordable, has USB connection and should have decent velocity range. My use case is music production in home studio, no gigging. What do you think?

Last edited by c4 (10-05-2024 06:04)

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

c4 wrote:

As subject says, my old YDP outputs low MIDI velocity. If I record a simple piece, the mean and max velocity is around 50. If I record the same piece on my crappy-keybed Novation Launchkey Mini, the mean velocity is around 60, max velocity more than 100.

I ran the velocity curve calibration assistant in Pianoteq. The signal chain for the YDP is MIDI cable to Focusrite Scarlett MIDI in, it should be OK. I am quite the piano noob, but understand I am missing out on dynamic range, even though I can get enough "loudness" out of the recordings.

I have been looking at the Roland FP-10, which is affordable, has USB connection and should have decent velocity range. My use case is music production in home studio, no gigging. What do you think?

The FP-10 is truly excellent and can output the whole range of velocities (0,127) in a very consistent manner and disconcerting facility. There are 5 touch modes  from (Super Heavy, Heavy, Medium, Light , Super Light). My preferred setting is "Light" : entire range of velocities 0-127, very easy to reach low velocities <10 , and maximum value of 127 reachable if you hit the keys quite hard , so in other words, it responds like a true acoustic piano. Many digital pianos way more expensive have a more reduced range , (30,110 on my MP11) which doesn't matter too much when you use their piano internal sounds but is not that  good when you want to use them with virtual instruments.

Reply by c4

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

Pianistically wrote:

There are 5 touch modes  from (Super Heavy, Heavy, Medium, Light , Super Light).

Is this a setting on the FP-10? I can not find that in the user manual?

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

c4 wrote:
Pianistically wrote:

There are 5 touch modes  from (Super Heavy, Heavy, Medium, Light , Super Light).

Is this a setting on the FP-10? I can not find that in the user manual?

yes it is . You will find it in the reference manual . The user manual is a summary .

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

Pianistically wrote:

You will find it in the reference manual . The user manual is a summary .

Thanks.

I also found a reference to a "MIDI master volume" in the YDP-131 manual page 41.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/content...&p=193

I have no experience using MIDI CC messages. I have a suspicion the master volume could be set to something lower than 127, or am I mixing things up?

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

c4 wrote:
Pianistically wrote:

You will find it in the reference manual . The user manual is a summary .

Thanks.

I also found a reference to a "MIDI master volume" in the YDP-131 manual page 41.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/content...&p=193

I have no experience using MIDI CC messages. I have a suspicion the master volume could be set to something lower than 127, or am I mixing things up?

They are Sysex midi messages , which mean the master volume could be controlled via another Midi  programmable controller or program. I am not familiar with the Yamaha Arius, but typically a Sysex Master volumes instructions are Midi data instructions starting with 1 status byte - Start of Sysex(0XF0) + 6 Bytes for volume instructions   + 1 Status byte - End of Sysex( 0xF7)

Note : This controls volume , not velocity range as such.

Last edited by Pianistically (10-05-2024 23:58)

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

Fo the record, Continuous Controllers are not SysEx messages; they are part of standard MIDI spec. System Exclusive messages are manufacturer-specific messages used to control non-standard parameters/capabilities of a particular instrument (moreso hardware than software).

Very simply, CC7 Master Volume is a standard MIDI controller that is intended to be used by the instrument developer to control the output signal level of the instrument (whether digital or analog, hardware or software), and that's what it does in Pianoteq. It does not affect velocity, which in some instruments (e.g. harpsichord) has little or no effect on volume anyway.

The YDP is likely sending CC7 message whenever you move its main Volume knob/slider, and every time you power it up. By default, Pianoteq will respond to that with movement of its Volume control in the UI and corresponding change in digital output level to the interface. I have my setup customized with an upper level of +8.2dB so that 0dB is at CC7=101 which is my DAW's default nominal MIDI track volume level. I don't recall what Pianoteq's default maximum was, but I would guess it was 127 = +12dB since that's the maximum the UI allows.

Bottom line, if CC7 is a factor, you will see it reflected in the position of the Volume control in Pianoteq being something other than 0dB, but it won't affect the velocities that keyboard is sending.

Last edited by brundlefly (11-05-2024 19:45)

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

brundlefly wrote:

Fo the record, Continuous Controllers are not SysEx messages; they are part of standard MIDI spec. System Exclusive messages are manufacturer-specific messages used to control non-standard parameters/capabilities of a particular instrument (moreso hardware than software).

Very simply, CC7 Master Volume is a standard MIDI controller that is intended to be used by the instrument developer to control the output signal level of the instrument (whether digital or analog, hardware or software), and that's what it does in Pianoteq. It does not affect velocity, which in some instruments (e.g. harpsichord) has little or no effect on volume anyway.

The YDP is likely sending CC7 message whenever you move its main Volume knob/slider, and every time you power it up. By default, Pianoteq will respond to that with movement of its Volume control in the UI and corresponding change in digital output level to the interface. I have my setup customized with an upper level of +8.2dB so that 0dB is at CC7=101 which is my DAW's default nominal MIDI track volume level. I don't recall what Pianoteq's default maximum was, but I would guess it was 127 = +12dB since that's the maximum the UI allows.

Bottom line, if CC7 is a factor, you will see it reflected in the position of the Volume control in Pianoteq being something other than 0dB, but it won't affect the velocities that keyboard is sending.

for the record , this is the way I would stucture a message based on the instructions given by the YDP 131 manual , page 41 as indicated by the OP

0xF0  SysEx
0x7F  Realtime
0x7F  The SysEx channel. Could be from 0x00 to 0x7F.
0x04  Sub-ID -- Device Control
0x01  Sub-ID2 -- Master Volume
0xLL  Bits 0 to 6 of a 14-bit volume
0xMM  Bits 7 to 13 of a 14-bit volume
0xF7  End of SysEx

Last edited by Pianistically (11-05-2024 23:30)

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

Pianistically wrote:

for the record , this is the way I would stucture a message based on the instructions given by the YDP 131 manual , page 41 as indicated by the OP

0xF0  SysEx
0x7F  Realtime
0x7F  The SysEx channel. Could be from 0x00 to 0x7F.
0x04  Sub-ID -- Device Control
0x01  Sub-ID2 -- Master Volume
0xLL  Bits 0 to 6 of a 14-bit volume
0xMM  Bits 7 to 13 of a 14-bit volume
0xF7  End of SysEx

That's for changing the volume of the YDP's internal sound engine; it won't have any bearing on the velocity output or Pianoteq's reponse to it.

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Re: Low MIDI velocity on Yamaha YDP-131

brundlefly wrote:
Pianistically wrote:

for the record , this is the way I would stucture a message based on the instructions given by the YDP 131 manual , page 41 as indicated by the OP

0xF0  SysEx
0x7F  Realtime
0x7F  The SysEx channel. Could be from 0x00 to 0x7F.
0x04  Sub-ID -- Device Control
0x01  Sub-ID2 -- Master Volume
0xLL  Bits 0 to 6 of a 14-bit volume
0xMM  Bits 7 to 13 of a 14-bit volume
0xF7  End of SysEx

That's for changing the volume of the YDP's internal sound engine; it won't have any bearing on the velocity output or Pianoteq's reponse to it.

I agree with that and this was in my original response too