Topic by agent88

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  • agent88
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Topic: Strange phasey effects remedied by microphone placement?

Hi,
I am finishing up a 12-song solo piano project that uses Pianoteq 8 as the instrument.

I enjoyed using different instrument packs and finding which ones seemed more or less suitable for each song.

On two of the songs, I kept hearing strange phase effects on the left-hand lower register chords. I spent a lot of time trying different instruments, tweaking hammer hardness, adjusting impedance, and making level adjustments to overtones, but the unnatural sounding effect persisted.

I finally stumbled upon a solution by moving the microphone locations. Having worked with a fair number of real-life grand pianos and fancy mics and preamps, I probably should have figured this out sooner, but I would venture to say that the influence of placement is emphasized more so in the mathematical model than I have experienced in the acoustic domain.

Anyway, I am writing here to ask for some sort of confirmation or validation. I know it sounds weak, but I'd rather be honest. I am at the point where I am too familiar with the music to remain as objective as I'd like to be.

Can any of you share thoughts, experiences, or insights with regard to the observation that mic placement can have such a pronounced effect?

Thank you!

Reply by Luc Henrion

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  • Luc Henrion
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Re: Strange phasey effects remedied by microphone placement?

agent88 wrote:

Hi,
I am finishing up a 12-song solo piano project that uses Pianoteq 8 as the instrument.

I enjoyed using different instrument packs and finding which ones seemed more or less suitable for each song.

On two of the songs, I kept hearing strange phase effects on the left-hand lower register chords. I spent a lot of time trying different instruments, tweaking hammer hardness, adjusting impedance, and making level adjustments to overtones, but the unnatural sounding effect persisted.

I finally stumbled upon a solution by moving the microphone locations. Having worked with a fair number of real-life grand pianos and fancy mics and preamps, I probably should have figured this out sooner, but I would venture to say that the influence of placement is emphasized more so in the mathematical model than I have experienced in the acoustic domain.

Anyway, I am writing here to ask for some sort of confirmation or validation. I know it sounds weak, but I'd rather be honest. I am at the point where I am too familiar with the music to remain as objective as I'd like to be.

Can any of you share thoughts, experiences, or insights with regard to the observation that mic placement can have such a pronounced effect?

Thank you!

I can just confirm, although I'm not sure whether the effect is more or less pronounced on the mathematical model than in reality, but it does exist for sure.

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by Chopin87

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  • Chopin87
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Re: Strange phasey effects remedied by microphone placement?

I think it is more difficult than in reality, that's because once in RL you figure out the space for the instrument (echoes, reflections, walls, floor) and you know how to place your mics to get the best out of their intrinsic pros and cons, it is pretty much straightforward to place them and get decent results. With Pianoteq is far more complicated because you fix something and something else breaks somewhere else. At least that has been my experience. It has gotten better compared to when it was introduced but it seems almost impossible to completely eliminate a certain aleatoric result in the sound projection no matter how many variables you try to eliminate by fussing around in the interface or by changing the mics position. I've never achieved a phase coherence result I am 100% satisfied about but only something I could live with.

Last edited by Chopin87 (13-04-2024 11:02)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by agent88

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Re: Strange phasey effects remedied by microphone placement?

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts.

I have only had a Pianoteq license for about 9 months, so I started with v8 standard and am still learning the basics.

It has been a real pleasure to use and learn. I feel lucky to have worked on projects where piano technicians and pianists worked side by side prior to a performance, so I have some familiarity with how many details can be considered. For my part, I was primarily concerned with mic placement, level setting, and staying out of the way, which allowed me the opportunity to listen and watch during the conversations made between the performer and piano tech.

I look forward to upgrading to the Pro package very soon.

Thank you!