Topic: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

I recently played my first gig using Pianoteq 8 on an iOS device. Here's a summary of the experience, and a couple issues I ran into (not flaws with Pianoteq).
I play an Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2, with a scarlett focusrite 2i4 interface. Pianoteq was installed on a standard (i.e. cheapest) 10 in. iPad from several years ago.
I was running and testing this setup the night before and it worked perfectly.
The gig was outdoors at a music festival, temp. about 88 degrees. We were playing under a canopy for shade.
We are a jazz quintet. Our group was set to play as soon as another band, set up next to ours, stopped. We had no opportunity for a sound check of any type.
If we had done any sound check, I could have avoided the first problem.
We started the first song, and I immediately realized my piano was not in tune with the rest of the band. It was around a half step low. I don't think it was exactly a half step low because I tried to transpose my playing and it still was a little off. I had to stop playing the first tune and let the band go on without me. This was pretty much a disaster IMO, as I've never had my rig fail me like that on a gig.
In the moment, I couldn't remember how to check all the midi and tuning sections (I don't normally transpose or change tunings). I now realize I needed to go into options, global midi settings, and check the small transpose box at the bottom. Also bring up the Tuning section of the main settings screen and check that it hadn't been inadvertently set to something other than A440. But I was so flustered I couldn't find those things on the iPad, and couldn't spend time looking up the manual. I needed to at least fix the problem before we started the next tune.

I tried closing and restarting Pianoteq. Same results. I was contemplating rebooting the iPad, which might have taken too long.
So finally I went to my backup plan--my iPhone 12 pro. I had installed Pianoteq on my iPhone, but not tried it with my keyboard. I hooked the phone up to the audio interface, selected the audio interface in the settings/midi section, and it worked! I was playing before the first tune had even ended.

I played the rest of the gig on the iPhone. Adjusting the settings was a little harder due to the small screen--but I didn't need to do much other than switch keyboards. I had set up my iPad to switch pianos when I pressed certain buttons--and I had not done the same on my iPhone. So I had to manually select the keyboard I wanted (mostly just switching between acoustic and electric piano).

Everything went well until the last tune--our closer.

The sun had gone lower in the sky and was now shining directly on the iPhone, causing it to heat up. The phone had some alert on the screen which I couldn't really read due to the sun's glare (and I was playing music at the time). The sound started cutting out, and making an awful sound through the PA. I played a jazz solo with the sound randomly cutting out and coming back every 10 seconds or so, it was terrible. I tried turning the phone over but the connector I had wasn't long enough to allow me to move it into shade.

Afterward, the phone basically shut down, it just said "I'm too hot" and you couldn't use it until it cooled down.

If I'd been using my old keyboard with built-in sounds I wouldn't have had any of these issues. I'm still on the fence about gigging with a computer-based sound setup. Since the Arturia Keylab is a controller only and does not have built-in sounds, I couldn't switch to those as a fallback.

Afterward the tuning problem with the iPad had gone away, and I have not been able to figure out what happened. I am pretty sure it is not a fault of the software--maybe I had inadvertently changed something, or some midi signal had done it. I will now always check the tuning before a gig.
And I realize I need to ensure that the iOS device (or laptop) stays out of the sun when playing outside.

I love Pianoteq and love that I could carry a backup in my pocket, thanks to the iOS versions. They really work great on any device I have. I could have even switched to my other iPad (a 12.9 in. iPad pro, which I use for my sheet music) if the phone didn't work out--it also has Pianoteq installed. So I have two backup systems.

I hope this helps someone.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

That is such a frustrating experience.
I have no idea why the tuning was transposed by 1 step. Perhaps you could have "counter-acted" it by transposing your MIDI keyboard 1 step in the opposite direction?
Regarding the sun, keeping the iPad / iPhone shaded and cool is important. A fan pointed at the screen is very important. I have had 2 different "traditional hardware" keyboards overheat in the direct sun too (Roland and Casio) so the problem isn't limited to virtual instruments.


sharpnine wrote:

I recently played my first gig using Pianoteq 8 on an iOS device. Here's a summary of the experience, and a couple issues I ran into (not flaws with Pianoteq).
I play an Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2, with a scarlett focusrite 2i4 interface. Pianoteq was installed on a standard (i.e. cheapest) 10 in. iPad from several years ago.
I was running and testing this setup the night before and it worked perfectly.
The gig was outdoors at a music festival, temp. about 88 degrees. We were playing under a canopy for shade.
We are a jazz quintet. Our group was set to play as soon as another band, set up next to ours, stopped. We had no opportunity for a sound check of any type.
If we had done any sound check, I could have avoided the first problem.
We started the first song, and I immediately realized my piano was not in tune with the rest of the band. It was around a half step low. I don't think it was exactly a half step low because I tried to transpose my playing and it still was a little off. I had to stop playing the first tune and let the band go on without me. This was pretty much a disaster IMO, as I've never had my rig fail me like that on a gig.
In the moment, I couldn't remember how to check all the midi and tuning sections (I don't normally transpose or change tunings). I now realize I needed to go into options, global midi settings, and check the small transpose box at the bottom. Also bring up the Tuning section of the main settings screen and check that it hadn't been inadvertently set to something other than A440. But I was so flustered I couldn't find those things on the iPad, and couldn't spend time looking up the manual. I needed to at least fix the problem before we started the next tune.

I tried closing and restarting Pianoteq. Same results. I was contemplating rebooting the iPad, which might have taken too long.
So finally I went to my backup plan--my iPhone 12 pro. I had installed Pianoteq on my iPhone, but not tried it with my keyboard. I hooked the phone up to the audio interface, selected the audio interface in the settings/midi section, and it worked! I was playing before the first tune had even ended.

I played the rest of the gig on the iPhone. Adjusting the settings was a little harder due to the small screen--but I didn't need to do much other than switch keyboards. I had set up my iPad to switch pianos when I pressed certain buttons--and I had not done the same on my iPhone. So I had to manually select the keyboard I wanted (mostly just switching between acoustic and electric piano).

Everything went well until the last tune--our closer.

The sun had gone lower in the sky and was now shining directly on the iPhone, causing it to heat up. The phone had some alert on the screen which I couldn't really read due to the sun's glare (and I was playing music at the time). The sound started cutting out, and making an awful sound through the PA. I played a jazz solo with the sound randomly cutting out and coming back every 10 seconds or so, it was terrible. I tried turning the phone over but the connector I had wasn't long enough to allow me to move it into shade.

Afterward, the phone basically shut down, it just said "I'm too hot" and you couldn't use it until it cooled down.

If I'd been using my old keyboard with built-in sounds I wouldn't have had any of these issues. I'm still on the fence about gigging with a computer-based sound setup. Since the Arturia Keylab is a controller only and does not have built-in sounds, I couldn't switch to those as a fallback.

Afterward the tuning problem with the iPad had gone away, and I have not been able to figure out what happened. I am pretty sure it is not a fault of the software--maybe I had inadvertently changed something, or some midi signal had done it. I will now always check the tuning before a gig.
And I realize I need to ensure that the iOS device (or laptop) stays out of the sun when playing outside.

I love Pianoteq and love that I could carry a backup in my pocket, thanks to the iOS versions. They really work great on any device I have. I could have even switched to my other iPad (a 12.9 in. iPad pro, which I use for my sheet music) if the phone didn't work out--it also has Pianoteq installed. So I have two backup systems.

I hope this helps someone.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

sharpnine wrote:

I play an Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2, with a scarlett focusrite 2i4 interface.

thanks for sharing - it's always very helpful to hear other people's experiences like this. it would be great to hear again if you try it on another gig

would you be able to talk through your connections and set up in more detail? do you use a standard apple camera converter, and/or a usb hub, and how do you manage power and connection to amp/PA?

thanks

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

It would be nice if Pianoteq had the ability to save and restore its entire configuration including *all* settings into a single file, so that in a live situation you could quickly load a known-good configuration in case you accidentally messed something up.

You could probably achieve something similar by writing a small script to backup and restore the preference files that Pianoteq saves on your disk, but it would be easier if there was an official way to do it built into the program itself.  It might also be hard to do that on an iOS device as opposed to Mac, Windows, or Linux.

Last edited by kanefsky (01-08-2023 21:47)

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

kanefsky wrote:

It would be nice if Pianoteq had the ability to save and restore its entire configuration including *all* settings into a single file, so that in a live situation you could quickly load a known-good configuration in case you accidentally messed something up.

You could probably achieve something similar by writing a small script to backup and restore the preference files that Pianoteq saves on your disk, but it would be easier if there was an official way to do it built into the program itself.  It might also be hard to do that on an iOS device as opposed to Mac, Windows, or Linux.

Good idea about setting up some sort of reset script. I'll think about how to make that work. On a digital piano I would sometimes turn the keyboard off and on (which only takes a second or two) and everything gets reset.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

sharpnine wrote:

Good idea about setting up some sort of reset script. I'll think about how to make that work.

The problem with iOS is that it has extra security so in general I'm not sure it's possible for one app to read the data from another app.  Generally apps have to provide the ability to copy the data to/from some shared location that other apps can access.  On Mac/Windows/Linux it's just a matter of knowing which directory the relevant files are saved in.


sharpnine wrote:

On a digital piano I would sometimes turn the keyboard off and on (which only takes a second or two) and everything gets reset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UT8RkSmN4k

Last edited by kanefsky (01-08-2023 22:06)

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

This definitely great post. Remind me to request "Transpose Button" Up & Down that easily access somewhere on GUI. Pianoteq does have Transpose access through Option and a few more clicks. For Live Gigs, playing some hard Song, Transpose Button can be very helpful.

YouTube page: Dulistan Heman

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

dulistan heman wrote:

This definitely great post. Remind me to request "Transpose Button" Up & Down that easily access somewhere on GUI. Pianoteq does have Transpose access through Option and a few more clicks. For Live Gigs, playing some hard Song, Transpose Button can be very helpful.

You can assign MIDI events to trigger transpose up/down, either by octave or semitone.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

jacko wrote:
sharpnine wrote:

I play an Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2, with a scarlett focusrite 2i4 interface.

thanks for sharing - it's always very helpful to hear other people's experiences like this. it would be great to hear again if you try it on another gig

would you be able to talk through your connections and set up in more detail? do you use a standard apple camera converter, and/or a usb hub, and how do you manage power and connection to amp/PA?

thanks

The iPad has a lightning connector, so I use the standard apple camera converter--although I like the one that also has a lightning input that can be used to charge the iPad if necessary (it has male lightning on one side, and both USB-A and female lightning on the other side). With my setup it is unlikely to run the power down as the USB hub will power external devices.

I use a simple (cheap) 4 port USB 3.0 hub (brand name Atolla)-- Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XTKV8V
I suspect most any USB 3.0 powered hub will work. I need to use the hub because the audio interface needs more power than an iPad or iPhone can supply.

I plug the USB hub into the camera connector USB, which itself plugs into the iPad. The power connector (wall wart) that comes with the USB hub must be connected and plugged into power. Then both the keyboard and the audio interface plug into two of the four USB ports on the hub (the other two are unused).
My keyboard gets all its power through USB, as does the audio interface, so only the hub is connected to AC.

The audio interface sits nicely on the Arturia keyboard, offering an easy to access gain knob and volume knob, as well as headphone out and headphone volume on the front of the interface.

The audio interface, besides plugging into the hub via USB, has the main audio out into PA and/or monitors. At home I'll usually run both outputs to QSC k8.2 monitors. On a gig I usually do one output to a PA (our band uses one) and I'll use one QSC monitor as a local monitor, setting on the floor next to me, so I can hear my own sound clearly separate from the PA mix--and run the other output to the PA.

I programmed some buttons on the Arturia to call up the various Pianoteq instruments presets that I want. I also set an Arturia slider to adjust Pianoteq volume.

As I mentioned I use a second iPad for my sheet music (fake books, etc.)--it's not connected to anything. Both iPads sit on the music stand.

Little digression here about using 2 ipads, a standard iPad for sounds, and an iPad pro 12.9 for sheet music:
I usually run with just the Pianoteq software, as I'm playing with a jazz group and don't need synths or other sounds than the ones in Pianoteq. If I do need other sounds I'll run the iPad version of Logic Pro and load Pianoteq into that. Although for that I'd need to use the better iPad (the iPad pro 12.9 that displays sheet music in forScore). This is where this setup would start to get more complicated. I could do it all with the iPad pro, but would be flipping between daw and sheet music, or Pianoteq and sheet music.  One thing I have noticed--the Pianoteq app will not display in portrait mode, whereas I typically would keep the iPad in portrait orientation for sheet music display. So flipping between Pianoteq app and forScore means reorienting the iPad, not pretty.
But, when Pianoteq is loaded into Logic Pro, it can load and display fine in portrait mode, so that problem goes away. So I think I could get by with the single iPad if necessary.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

If you have any iPad from the last few years (and probably any iPhone from the 15 on forward), then the hub below works really well for supplying power to the iPad (using the same power adapter you'd normally use or any other USB power adapter) and also letting you plug in a MIDI keyboard, audio interface, and one other USB device and powering them all as well.  You could also use a USB power bank battery to power everything for as long as you could possibly need (depending on what size power bank you choose) without requiring a wall outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08SVZFFPP


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61S7Asj36AL._AC_SX679_.jpg

Last edited by kanefsky (01-08-2023 22:38)

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

Here are a couple photos of my setup:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/evfrd7ck...w&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/l0lu9bb3...o&dl=0

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

kanefsky wrote:

If you have any iPad from the last few years (and probably any iPhone from the 15 on forward), then the hub below works really well for supplying power to the iPad (using the same power adapter you'd normally use or any other USB power adapter) and also letting you plug in a MIDI keyboard, audio interface, and one other USB device and powering them all as well.  You could also use a USB power bank battery to power everything for as long as you could possibly need (depending on what size power bank you choose) without requiring a wall outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08SVZFFPP


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61S7Asj36AL._AC_SX679_.jpg

Thanks for the tip--I just ordered one to keep in my gig bag if I need to hook up the iPad pro. Good price!

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

sharpnine wrote:

Thanks for the tip--I just ordered one to keep in my gig bag if I need to hook up the iPad pro. Good price!

No problem.  I've got a couple of them.  I've used them with iPads and I also use one with a MacBook just to keep the cables tidy and out of sight, so that there's only one cable connected to the Mac.

https://datamagic.com/v-pianoteq.jpg

Last edited by kanefsky (01-08-2023 22:55)

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

thanks sharpnine and kanefsky for the detailed and helpful replies. very much appreciated

i hope you can overcome those problems you faced in the first gig, sharpnine

very best to you both

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

Hi. For what it's worth, I had a similar problem, thanksfully in a jam session. I used a midi keyboard controller and an ipad with a piano app. All looked good but the sound was a bit off key. What I didn't check was that the modulation wheel was at mid-range. This triggered a sort-of tremolo that changed the pitch. So that. We usually don't think about a modulation wheel when playing piano. But it can add more trouble than not.

Last edited by Tilde (29-09-2023 16:29)

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

sharpnine wrote:

The problem with iOS is that it has extra security so in general I'm not sure it's possible for one app to read the data from another app.  Generally apps have to provide the ability to copy the data to/from some shared location that other apps can access.  On Mac/Windows/Linux it's just a matter of knowing which directory the relevant files are saved in.

Most apps can write to Files now.  Or you can share a file to a cloud.

May be able to add pianoteq to the share menu on files or on cloud or on drive.  So to restore you just share it to yourself and you get a fresh copy off the cloud.

***

Almost every instrument allows  you to adjust the frequency that is used for A.  Default is 440.  Not sure if this can transpose *enough*, but it would fix the first instance problem of being a semi-tone or so out.  I suspect that some instruments would sound pretty weird if you moved 440 to 350.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

A few tips. Charging batteries heat up the battery so make sure the battery is fully charged even if you power it by its charger, this should generate less heat. The larger ipad has a larger area and with more processing power is likely more efficient so should generate less heat.

Re: Playing a gig through iOS Pianoteq

sharpnine wrote:

I recently played my first gig using Pianoteq 8 on an iOS device. Here's a summary of the experience, and a couple issues I ran into (not flaws with Pianoteq).
I play an Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2, with a scarlett focusrite 2i4 interface. Pianoteq was installed on a standard (i.e. cheapest) 10 in. iPad from several years ago.
I was running and testing this setup the night before and it worked perfectly.
The gig was outdoors at a music festival, temp. about 88 degrees. We were playing under a canopy for shade.
We are a jazz quintet. Our group was set to play as soon as another band, set up next to ours, stopped. We had no opportunity for a sound check of any type.
If we had done any sound check, I could have avoided the first problem.
We started the first song, and I immediately realized my piano was not in tune with the rest of the band. It was around a half step low. I don't think it was exactly a half step low because I tried to transpose my playing and it still was a little off. I had to stop playing the first tune and let the band go on without me. This was pretty much a disaster IMO, as I've never had my rig fail me like that on a gig.
In the moment, I couldn't remember how to check all the midi and tuning sections (I don't normally transpose or change tunings). I now realize I needed to go into options, global midi settings, and check the small transpose box at the bottom. Also bring up the Tuning section of the main settings screen and check that it hadn't been inadvertently set to something other than A440. But I was so flustered I couldn't find those things on the iPad, and couldn't spend time looking up the manual. I needed to at least fix the problem before we started the next tune.

I tried closing and restarting Pianoteq. Same results. I was contemplating rebooting the iPad, which might have taken too long.
So finally I went to my backup plan--my iPhone 12 pro. I had installed Pianoteq on my iPhone, but not tried it with my keyboard. I hooked the phone up to the audio interface, selected the audio interface in the settings/midi section, and it worked! I was playing before the first tune had even ended.

I played the rest of the gig on the iPhone. Adjusting the settings was a little harder due to the small screen--but I didn't need to do much other than switch keyboards. I had set up my iPad to switch pianos when I pressed certain buttons--and I had not done the same on my iPhone. So I had to manually select the keyboard I wanted (mostly just switching between acoustic and electric piano).

Everything went well until the last tune--our closer.

The sun had gone lower in the sky and was now shining directly on the iPhone, causing it to heat up. The phone had some alert on the screen which I couldn't really read due to the sun's glare (and I was playing music at the time). The sound started cutting out, and making an awful sound through the PA. I played a jazz solo with the sound randomly cutting out and coming back every 10 seconds or so, it was terrible. I tried turning the phone over but the connector I had wasn't long enough to allow me to move it into shade.

Afterward, the phone basically shut down, it just said "I'm too hot" and you couldn't use it until it cooled down.

If I'd been using my old keyboard with built-in sounds I wouldn't have had any of these issues. I'm still on the fence about gigging with a computer-based sound setup. Since the Arturia Keylab is a controller only and does not have built-in sounds, I couldn't switch to those as a fallback.

Afterward the tuning problem with the iPad had gone away, and I have not been able to figure out what happened. I am pretty sure it is not a fault of the software--maybe I had inadvertently changed something, or some midi signal had done it. I will now always check the tuning before a gig.
And I realize I need to ensure that the iOS device (or laptop) stays out of the sun when playing outside.

I love Pianoteq and love that I could carry a backup in my pocket, thanks to the iOS versions. They really work great on any device I have. I could have even switched to my other iPad (a 12.9 in. iPad pro, which I use for my sheet music) if the phone didn't work out--it also has Pianoteq installed. So I have two backup systems.

I hope this helps someone.

great post , thanks for sharing your experience , very useful. Live issues happen all the time even to the best professionals . Just to illustrate the video link here show how pro’s deal with technical issues . Here Toto guitarist has an issue and while the technical support guy fixes the issue , the pianist plays the solo part which supposed to be played by the guitarist and when eventually all is fixed , the guitarist played without losing a beat . He said that during the issue he was continuing playing silently to make sure he would land on the right note when the sound comes back! Only years of live concerts allow you to have this kind of reaction . https://youtu.be/F9XQcd9UuRw?si=TdRb4l5kwt4KmpcI