I'm currently reseaching budget pianos, and would like to know how Roland's PHA-4 action compares with Casio's Scaled Hammer II and Smart Scaled Hammer actions. I'm familiar with the PHA-4 (I have the FP-30) but I haven't had the chance to try any Casio models. From looking at some reviews, I get the impression that Casio's actions are somewhat lighter than Roland's. Is that correct?
I'm currently reseaching budget pianos, and would like to know how Roland's PHA-4 action compares with Casio's Scaled Hammer II and Smart Scaled Hammer actions. I'm familiar with the PHA-4 (I have the FP-30) but I haven't had the chance to try any Casio models. From looking at some reviews, I get the impression that Casio's actions are somewhat lighter than Roland's. Is that correct?
For in depth comparisons my guess is that Piano World forums is more likely to have more people who have compared both Roland and Casio systems recently - though not specifically for Pianoteq.
I still like my CDP -130 action. I see that these newer keyboards were made even slimmer and lighter and I think this changed the feel of the hammer action; not like they might have done this to make them cheaper to manufacture, and more importantly ship or anything..
You'll probably get a more useful answer soon - if you're not prepared to consider good used keyboards too.
For what it's worth I think the older CDP-120 was exactly the same action, just inferior digital sound engine.
I say I like it because I cannot better the out of the box velocity curves - at least for a global setting.
I looked at Studiologic SL73 for a time and was put off by numerous comments about the heavy action. That one is hammer action but doesn't say it's graded hammer action. Light and portable - or cheaper to manufacture and ship, you decide..
Thanks Key Fumbler. Good point about Piano World forum - although I must say I find the Modartt forum a lot easier to navigate, and easier on the eyes!
It's not necessarily for Pianoteq, but that may be an option in the future. I'm doing the research for a friend with an 8-year-old daughter, both learning to play. No great rush, so I'm happy to wait for more input.
Thanks Key Fumbler. Good point about Piano World forum - although I must say I find the Modartt forum a lot easier to navigate, and easier on the eyes!
It's not necessarily for Pianoteq, but that may be an option in the future. I'm doing the research for a friend with an 8-year-old daughter, both learning to play. No great rush, so I'm happy to wait for more input.
I don't frequent that forum, I just thought it would be a better option for obtaining a greater number of opinions.
An eight year old girl is likely to want to just turn it on and play the thing, therefore you really want to consider the sound quality of the sampled instruments and built-in speakers - I guess you've considered all that though.
8 years old me would have already wanted Pianoteq and good speakers (if it had been an option) but I was spoiled listening to Dad's good hi-fi gear and being male more likely to give a damn about such things anyway.
PHA-4 entry level keyboard still sound like a total no brainer though. Even so it would be nice to be able to compare that with an entry level Casio or Kawai - provided the onboard sounds are up to snuff!
I'm currently reseaching budget pianos, and would like to know how Roland's PHA-4 action compares with Casio's Scaled Hammer II and Smart Scaled Hammer actions. I'm familiar with the PHA-4 (I have the FP-30) but I haven't had the chance to try any Casio models. From looking at some reviews, I get the impression that Casio's actions are somewhat lighter than Roland's. Is that correct?
Roland’s PHA-4 is better than the Casio Smart Scaled Hammer, far more better for any pianist. It is in their FP10, FP30, FP60 and RD88. I owned a FP10 and a RD88. Only known issue is that some of them become clunky after a while (many people complained about that). That was the case for my FP10 and the RD88. Seems that the grease they used is quite sensitive to the high temperature and becomes dry, hence the noise produced, especially by the black keys. Now if you’re a beginner, or not playing classical music the Casio one could be ok. The main issue of the Casio keyboard is that their pivot length is very short to to the design, and to compensate this problem Casio made the black key lighter than the white and also shifted them a little bit. Which means the balance is terrible and when you play forward in the keyboard it can be tricky.
dazric wrote:I'm currently reseaching budget pianos, and would like to know how Roland's PHA-4 action compares with Casio's Scaled Hammer II and Smart Scaled Hammer actions. I'm familiar with the PHA-4 (I have the FP-30) but I haven't had the chance to try any Casio models. From looking at some reviews, I get the impression that Casio's actions are somewhat lighter than Roland's. Is that correct?
Roland’s PHA-4 is better than the Casio Smart Scaled Hammer, far more better for any pianist. It is in their FP10, FP30, FP60 and RD88. I owned a FP10 and a RD88. Only known issue is that some of them become clunky after a while (many people complained about that). That was the case for my FP10 and the RD88. Seems that the grease they used is quite sensitive to the high temperature and becomes dry, hence the noise produced, especially by the black keys. Now if you’re a beginner, or not playing classical music the Casio one could be ok. The main issue of the Casio keyboard is that their pivot length is very short to to the design, and to compensate this problem Casio made the black key lighter than the white and also shifted them a little bit. Which means the balance is terrible and when you play forward in the keyboard it can be tricky.
I cannot agree... I played the Roland FP 10 & 30 a lot, and they are good, sure, but I just like my old Casio PX350 a lot. While assuming it is on the "light" side (certainly considering my old real grand) I can just say that some friends (trained classical pianists too, even better than I am !) keep asking to borrow it for certain performances ! Matter of taste, I would say...
I cannot agree... I played the Roland FP 10 & 30 a lot, and they are good, sure, but I just like my old Casio PX350 a lot. While assuming it is on the "light" side (certainly considering my old real grand) I can just say that some friends (trained classical pianists too, even better than I am !) keep asking to borrow it for certain performances ! Matter of taste, I would say...
I would agree it's a matter of taste. I had an old Casio PX-110 (same keybed as PX350, I believe) that I "upgraded" some years ago to FP-10. The main difference is that the Casio feel was light and lively, and the FP-10 key feel is much heavier in comparison. If you just press the FP-10 keys, you'll think they feel much more like a piano. Whether that something important is unclear to me. The PX-110 was fine to play, felt nicer in some ways. PX-110 keyboard was pretty noisy, but not a big deal, just get over it. My FP-10 is developing clunks. Also not a huge deal, will just take apart and regrease if it bothers me too much. I did test the newer Casios (PSX-1000? not sure of numbering) when I got the FP-10. Difference was similar. I'm pretty sure I would be quite happy with any of the Casios. Pluses and minuses to everything. Don't worry about it. Or, if you do worry about it, worry about it based on the personal experience you've had with specific keyboards, not with comments you read written about them on the interwebs, which comments are often highly opinionated and misleading.
I have 2 Casio PX 350s (loaned them out now), a Casio PX-560M (which sits at my computer for Pianoteq), a casio PX-S3000, that I use to carry around when I play out , and just got the PX-S7000 (with the cool matching stool). I like the feel of all of them. A little bit of difference between them in feel but once I play a little adjust .. like when I switch guitars . I played the Roland and many others at stores and at NAMM, including the big name real pianos like my favorite- a couple Ravencrofts - and the Casio is plenty good for me.
Many thanks for all your responses. Yes, I was prepared for divided opinions - but it's like that for acoustic pianos too! Of course, the best way to decide is always to go and try the keyboards in a showroom. I would always encourage prospective buyers to do that if at all possible. The main thing is that people who have Casios generally seem to be quite happy with them, which is basically what I wanted to know. So it's a case of 'take your pick'...
I have also studied the various slim digital pianos and their action relatively intensively. What is "the best"? Well, the unsurprising answer up front is: "It depends!"
All these inexpensive digital pianos have their specific advantages and disadvantages. Ultimately, you have to find out for yourself what suits you best. What became clear to me during my search: You can play and learn piano well to very well with all well-known digital pianos. As proof, you will always find enough very talented pianists who enjoy playing with the keyboard in question and qualify it as good. So you can't really go wrong with any of them. But you should find out for yourself what is most important to you personally.
The PHA4 from Roland is fascinating when you see it and play it. It somehow feels very much like a piano. It requires slightly more finger strength than the Casios. Some people like that. Others don't. The former like the resistance and the "escapment" and say that they can play very expressively with it. The latter say that it tires them too much, that they have the feeling that the keyboard slows them down a bit (feeling like wading through water). I can understand both attitudes myself. But as a beginner, you certainly can't go wrong with an FP30x or FP10. Many beginners and music students use these devices successfully. And they are also often recommended by teachers if you want something light, cheap and piano-like. And a killer feature of the FP30X is the ability to use the sound of Pianoteq elegantly via one and the same USB cable with a connected iPad, as it can be used as an audio device.
But the Casios also have a lot to offer. They are much slimmer and very light. This means that if looks, space and weight are very important, they are the right choice. The keyboards are somewhat lighter weighted than the PHA4. Somehow, however, they are also simpler. But still pleasant to play. I myself have the impression that they tire me less. I played on a Casio PX-S1000 for 3 years and have now switched to the PX-S5000. And I have to say that I got on well with the PX-S1000, but I love the PX-S5000 with the new keyboard even more. It feels better balanced and smoother. All in all, it's very high quality. But the devices with the new keyboard are significantly more expensive, so there are other options if it doesn't have to be light and slim.
Unfortunately, in the end I'm back where I was at the beginning: go to the store and try out both brands and then decide. Both are definitely suitable for a child. Because 99% of the time, the challenges lie elsewhere than with the chosen keyboard ;-)
@thowe: excellent, thank you! That's exactly the sort of insight I was hoping for.