It can't be that version 8.2 was a step back, it's probably me.
I used to be in love with all the pianos I had, especially the NY Steinway D, but I truly enjoyed them all. However, things have turned around now, and there's only one I feel comfortable with—the Blüthner. It might just be me? I would appreciate your feedback, please.
Best regards!
Am I the only one who believes that version 8.2 has been a step backward? If anyone could advise me on how to obtain the installer for the immediately preceding version, I would appreciate it.
I used to be in love with all the pianos I had, especially the NY Steinway D, but I truly enjoyed them all. However, things have turned around now, and there's only one I feel comfortable with—the Blüthner. It might just be me? I would appreciate your feedback, please.
Best regards!
The general consensus is that 8.2 is a big improvement, nonetheless some ears and some systems might have benefited from the slightly sharper old sound. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water I suggest you try to enjoy the improvements, but adjust the sound for your ears.
Get to know your way around EQ. It's a fast way to tailor the sound to your ears.
Have a play with the EQ options. It could be that your ears are missing the sharper treble.
You have three effects slots you could put EQ in and then there's also the model EQ.
You can also adjust through the velocity curves and hammer hardness. You can also change how soft the reverb sounds.
I don't have an answer for you, but a feature request for Modartt, I would love to see an option in the future to select which minor version's (unexposed) soundboard parameters are used.
I wouldn't necessarily say 8.2 is a step backward compared to 8.1, but it's different, for sure. So much of it comes down to familiarity and personal taste, it would be nice to have a simple option to choose which soundboard params (8.1, 8.2, etc) we are working with. I had a handful of my own presets I would tend to stick with in 8.1 and they've lost their magic (IMHO) in 8.2.
I don't have an answer for you, but a feature request for Modartt, I would love to see an option in the future to select which minor version's (unexposed) soundboard parameters are used.
I wouldn't necessarily say 8.2 is a step backward compared to 8.1, but it's different, for sure. So much of it comes down to familiarity and personal taste, it would be nice to have a simple option to choose which soundboard params (8.1, 8.2, etc) we are working with. I had a handful of my own presets I would tend to stick with in 8.1 and they've lost their magic (IMHO) in 8.2.
But you can do that today already by installing how many versions you want side-by-side!
In fact I have v6.7.3, v7.0.3, v7.5.2, v8.0.3 and v8.1.3 installed (don't have a controller at the moment so I have not experimented with the v8.2 yet). I even saved the installers for two v5's and a v4 even though I doubt I will every use them again, but I *could*.
Is your OS one of those dumb ones that prevent you from doing this?
It can't be that version 8.2 was a step back, it's probably me.
I used to be in love with all the pianos I had, especially the NY Steinway D, but I truly enjoyed them all. However, things have turned around now, and there's only one I feel comfortable with—the Blüthner. It might just be me? I would appreciate your feedback, please.
Best regards!
You're not the only one, for I had the same feeling in the first few days. My problem previously was with the key action of producing exact velocity. 8.2 solved that issue. I guess it affected my liking or dislike for the new revoicing. The Yamaha P515 has pretty good key action that allows me to get exact velocity using its built-in sound. But not with Pianoteq 8.1.3, though. My Kawai VPC-1 helps a lot with its built-in VPC Editor, but not much. I have no time to adjust it accordingly because I prefer to use it to play.
So far, I have not complained about the new 8.2. You can read all my reviews in other posts, where you can find all my complaints.
Best regards.
To be honest, I'm also unsure about the 8.2 version. My Steinway D (Hamburg and NY) in particular sound very different. Not just better for me. Model B is still similar to before.
Since the topic creator mentioned the Blüthner as a positive exception, I just played the demo of the Blüthner. And yes, I share his opinion: it sounds the liveliest to me now and gives me a more genuine piano feeling. So I'm going to buy the Blüthner straight away. :-)
Maybe I'll make my installation completely fresh. I can't get rid of the suspicion that the Steinways in particular don't sound as they should to me. Could this be due to a botched configuration after the update?
To be honest, I'm also unsure about the 8.2 version. My Steinway D (Hamburg and NY) in particular sound very different. Not just better for me. Model B is still similar to before.
Since the topic creator mentioned the Blüthner as a positive exception, I just played the demo of the Blüthner. And yes, I share his opinion: it sounds the liveliest to me now and gives me a more genuine piano feeling. So I'm going to buy the Blüthner straight away. :-)
Maybe I'll make my installation completely fresh. I can't get rid of the suspicion that the Steinways in particular don't sound as they should to me. Could this be due to a botched configuration after the update?
I don't know what they've done, it's probably my fault, maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it, I don't know... I would like the pianos to be more similar to the sounds of the previous 8.1.3 in future updates, in which (in my opinion, and until now) everything sounded better.
I don't have an answer for you, but a feature request for Modartt, I would love to see an option in the future to select which minor version's (unexposed) soundboard parameters are used.
I wouldn't necessarily say 8.2 is a step backward compared to 8.1, but it's different, for sure. So much of it comes down to familiarity and personal taste, it would be nice to have a simple option to choose which soundboard params (8.1, 8.2, etc) we are working with. I had a handful of my own presets I would tend to stick with in 8.1 and they've lost their magic (IMHO) in 8.2.
I think quite a few users feel like this. In general I'm happy with 8.2. However, some presets that I really liked before now seem to me a bit 'meh'. On the other hand, there are a number of presets that I didn't particularly like before that I now find quite attractive. I like the idea of having a choice of soundboard versions to work with.
One other observation: in 8.2 I'm finding myself going rather heavier on the Condition slider than I did before. The mint condition pianos just seem too squeaky clean!
thowe wrote:To be honest, I'm also unsure about the 8.2 version. My Steinway D (Hamburg and NY) in particular sound very different. Not just better for me. Model B is still similar to before.
Since the topic creator mentioned the Blüthner as a positive exception, I just played the demo of the Blüthner. And yes, I share his opinion: it sounds the liveliest to me now and gives me a more genuine piano feeling. So I'm going to buy the Blüthner straight away. :-)
Maybe I'll make my installation completely fresh. I can't get rid of the suspicion that the Steinways in particular don't sound as they should to me. Could this be due to a botched configuration after the update?
I don't know what they've done, it's probably my fault, maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it, I don't know... I would like the pianos to be more similar to the sounds of the previous 8.1.3 in future updates, in which (in my opinion, and until now) everything sounded better.
Folks, there has been am improvement in removing the weird metalling buildup (for lack of a better term) in past releases. I found the NY Steinway harsh before.
So there is the possibility that:
- some people are more sensitive to higher frequencies
- they use different playback systems
Untreated, different presets would sound OK for me on different headphones, for example.
I recommend you try listening with a variety of systems.
I don't have an answer for you, but a feature request for Modartt, I would love to see an option in the future to select which minor version's (unexposed) soundboard parameters are used.
I wouldn't necessarily say 8.2 is a step backward compared to 8.1, but it's different, for sure. So much of it comes down to familiarity and personal taste, it would be nice to have a simple option to choose which soundboard params (8.1, 8.2, etc) we are working with. I had a handful of my own presets I would tend to stick with in 8.1 and they've lost their magic (IMHO) in 8.2.
The idea is good , but I guess the issue is that at which point do you stop carrying the weight of legacy ? Some users will want to have 8.0 parameters , etc .. I would imagine the issue is not so much about implementing such a feature which seems to me like quite easy , but more like a testing cost burden , when it comes to fixing issues or implementing other code add ons , as you have to test against all possible environments, and at some point it becomes unmanageable . Many software update processes have led to disaster . MuseScore was one of the best example until version 3 as they reached a point where testing had became just impossible , so decision was made rewrite everything from scratch with version 4. As a Mac user , I much prefer to use parallel environments to have concurrent environments to run different minor versions . That said , your point is valid
I had fallen in love with Steinways (both D, B) with previous versions. With 8.2 it's now definitely the Blüthner. I hadn't noticed it before.
I've just bought a Blüthner Pack and have already been playing it a lot. 8.2 + Blüthner is now good for falling in love with for me.
I had fallen in love with Steinways (both D, B) with previous versions. With 8.2 it's now definitely the Blüthner. I hadn't noticed it before.
I've just bought a Blüthner Pack and have already been playing it a lot. 8.2 + Blüthner is now good for falling in love with for me.
Check the Blüthner samples I posted here
https://gearspace.com/board/product-ale...8-a-6.html
Not bare through Pianoteq but how I’d normally process in my DAW
thowe wrote:I had fallen in love with Steinways (both D, B) with previous versions. With 8.2 it's now definitely the Blüthner. I hadn't noticed it before.
I've just bought a Blüthner Pack and have already been playing it a lot. 8.2 + Blüthner is now good for falling in love with for me.
Check the Blüthner samples I posted here
https://gearspace.com/board/product-ale...8-a-6.html
Not bare through Pianoteq but how I’d normally process in my DAW
Interesting! Thanks for posting those. Personally, I prefer the HB SD, but then it's all a matter of taste, etc, etc!
But you can do that today already by installing how many versions you want side-by-side!
Is your OS one of those dumb ones that prevent you from doing this?
By "ones" do you mean iOS? Yes, it's stuck on 8.2 on my iPhone, which runs a supported OS ("dumb" or not) so my feature request stands.
Semantic Versioning:
MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes
MINOR version when you add functionality in a backward-compatible manner
PATCH version when you make backward-compatible bug fixes
I spent significant time dialing in many of my presets and I'm just asking for the option to select back-end settings from a previous minor version so I can elect to use them as I wish. I'm asking for backward 8.1 compatibility as implied by the 8.2 version number. Otherwise, this seems more like Pianoteq 9, and should have defaulted to a side-by-side install, rather than overwriting 8.1.3 by default.
Even then, say we install Pianoteq 8.1.3 and 8.2.0 side-by-side in Windows (or whatever "not-dumb" OS of your choice), now we have the friction of having to figure out which minor version we're selecting inside our DAW, assuming our DAW even exposes this information in its VI browser. No matter how you slice it, it's kludgy at best and presumably unnecessary.
I'd understand some pushback if I was asking for a fundamental change to the application architecture, or even a feature that would take time to figure out. I'm just asking for permission to select between the hidden 8.1 and 8.2 parameter values. I *think* I'm just asking for one dev to do something relatively straightforward. This may be more complicated than I'm hoping for, and would have to defer to Modartt as it's their code to maintain. I'm just a customer making a suggestion, and I know some others feel the same way.
Anyway, Modartt, I'd still like this option if it's viable, please. I appreciate many of the changes in 8.2 and can understand why they were made, but without this capability, I don't believe this should have been a minor release.
The idea is good , but I guess the issue is that at which point do you stop carrying the weight of legacy?
In the next major version, as outlined on semver.org.
Pianistically wrote:The idea is good , but I guess the issue is that at which point do you stop carrying the weight of legacy?
In the next major version, as outlined on semver.org.
Is this a cryptic message?
miiindbullets wrote:Pianistically wrote:The idea is good , but I guess the issue is that at which point do you stop carrying the weight of legacy?
In the next major version, as outlined on semver.org.
Is this a cryptic message?
Not intentionally. Pianistically asked where you draw the line of carrying the weight of legacy (8.1) features, and the generally accepted answer is with the release of 9.0.
I'm just saying it doesn't feel like 8.2 is following the conventions of a minor software release, but I'm hopeful it could be a relatively quick fix.
I think I was the first to make a thread asking if this version 8.2.0 was sounding stuffy.
But I'm slowly getting used to it. However, I no longer use the NY Steinway like I used to. Now the K2 Warm has been my preference.
In fact, I already really admired K2 Warm in Pianoteq 8.1.3, but now it seems to be the only option.
Key Fumbler wrote:miiindbullets wrote:In the next major version, as outlined on semver.org.
Is this a cryptic message?
Not intentionally. Pianistically asked where you draw the line of carrying the weight of legacy (8.1) features, and the generally accepted answer is with the release of 9.0.
I'm just saying it doesn't feel like 8.2 is following the conventions of a minor software release, but I'm hopeful it could be a relatively quick fix.
I'm glad of this. Much like Cockos with the Reaper DAW Modartt are prepared to make and release serious improvements to Pianoteq as and when they develop them. There has been other times they've improved the product during a generation.
It only takes a little EQ adjustment to generally adjust to taste, this is why I suggest people adjust to taste their favorite presets.
A big part of the differences we're seeing discussed here is a combination of the different hearing curves of the users combined with the different room responses of the chosen loudspeakers. People's perception will also be coloured by playback levels. Some presets will now inevitably work better for some users at higher volumes, others at lower volumes than before
It's also impossible for us to know how much time people are spending to make their evaluations. The handful of comments we have here is a rather flawed way to assess the general perception of users given the small sample group I suggest.
If I say it's brilliant and somebody else agrees with me it could just be an echo chamber.
I think 8.2 is a big improvement over all though. That's my perception - flawed as it is.
I'm glad of this. Much like Cockos with the Reaper DAW Modartt are prepared to make and release serious improvements to Pianoteq as and when they develop them. There has been other times they've improved the product during a generation.
Well I'm certainly not suggesting they stop pursuing a more realistic sound, but it seems we agree any "improvement" is going to be somewhat subjective. Objectively, they changed some parameters that we don't have access to.
Some users like it. Some of us are... shall we say, still acclimating.
I'm just saying with any minor release, care should be taken not to introduce breaking changes, and all my custom presets sure sound different now. I'd argue this was a breaking change in that regard. I can go reinstall 8.1.3 (on my PC, anyway) and get my presets back, but as an end-user, what possible drawback is there in having the option to choose which of the 8.x back-end settings we prefer? Especially with a synth like Pianoteq, where we have the choice to control hundreds of parameters of the physical model. Isn't that the big selling point of Standard and Pro? That end users have ultimate control over the sound of the instrument?
It only takes a little EQ adjustment to generally adjust to taste, this is why I suggest people adjust to taste their favorite presets.
Perhaps, but I'm still struggling to dial things in on my end. The new Steinways sound more "modeled" to me than my old custom presets did. I do like the new Bluthner more than the old one.
I'm not upset with Modartt or anything, and I still enjoy Pianoteq. Just surprised at the feature request pushback. This isn't the first thread I've seen on the topic, and it seems (to an outsider who's guessing at the complexity) like a potentially straightforward feature request.
Key Fumbler wrote:I'm glad of this. Much like Cockos with the Reaper DAW Modartt are prepared to make and release serious improvements to Pianoteq as and when they develop them. There has been other times they've improved the product during a generation.
Well I'm certainly not suggesting they stop pursuing a more realistic sound, but it seems we agree any "improvement" is going to be somewhat subjective. Objectively, they changed some parameters that we don't have access to.
Some users like it. Some of us are... shall we say, still acclimating.
I'm just saying with any minor release, care should be taken not to introduce breaking changes, and all my custom presets sure sound different now. I'd argue this was a breaking change in that regard. I can go reinstall 8.1.3 (on my PC, anyway) and get my presets back, but as an end-user, what possible drawback is there in having the option to choose which of the 8.x back-end settings we prefer? Especially with a synth like Pianoteq, where we have the choice to control hundreds of parameters of the physical model. Isn't that the big selling point of Standard and Pro? That end users have ultimate control over the sound of the instrument?
It only takes a little EQ adjustment to generally adjust to taste, this is why I suggest people adjust to taste their favorite presets.
Perhaps, but I'm still struggling to dial things in on my end. The new Steinways sound more "modeled" to me than my old custom presets did. I do like the new Bluthner more than the old one.
I'm not upset with Modartt or anything, and I still enjoy Pianoteq. Just surprised at the feature request pushback. This isn't the first thread I've seen on the topic, and it seems (to an outsider who's guessing at the complexity) like a potentially straightforward feature request.
To be fair as I am on Standard not Pro I will not have made the extensive changes possible to a Pro user - of course I can load up a pro user's home made presets though. So I don't know how far from the original model you have taken your presets. Given that you can modify the sound much more that's far more scope to make adjustments that don't sit well with the new preset modifications.
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
This seems to be a nice feature; thank you, but what am I doing wrong
as loading the PTQ-file comes with an error message:
“This PTQ file was not loaded: STEINWAYDV80.ptq
Reason: Corrupt or truncated.”
Anyone ?
This seems to be a nice feature; thank you, but what am I doing wrong
as loading the PTQ-file comes with an error message:
“This PTQ file was not loaded: STEINWAYDV80.ptq
Reason: Corrupt or truncated.”
Anyone ?
Sorry, there was a bug, download it again and it should work.
Adje wrote:This seems to be a nice feature; thank you, but what am I doing wrong
as loading the PTQ-file comes with an error message:
“This PTQ file was not loaded: STEINWAYDV80.ptq
Reason: Corrupt or truncated.”
Anyone ?Sorry, there was a bug, download it again and it should work.
Loading problem solved, thank you so much for the quick fix.
Philippe Guillaume wrote:Adje wrote:This seems to be a nice feature; thank you, but what am I doing wrong
as loading the PTQ-file comes with an error message:
“This PTQ file was not loaded: STEINWAYDV80.ptq
Reason: Corrupt or truncated.”
Anyone ?Sorry, there was a bug, download it again and it should work.
Loading problem solved, thank you so much for the quick fix.
Excellent, thanks Philippe! It will be fascinating comparing the old and new versions. And very useful if I want to reconstruct some of my old presets.
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
Thank you for this!
Merci !
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
I am grateful to God for making me aware of such a serious and responsible company, truly committed to meeting the needs and desires of its users.
Congratulations and thanks to the Modartt team for listening to us.
Philippe Guillaume wrote:We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.I am grateful to God for making me aware of such a serious and responsible company, truly committed to meeting the needs and desires of its users.
Congratulations and thanks to the Modartt team for listening to us.
I don't remember a deity coming on the forum?
I hope I would remember that!!!
Yes Modartt are an excellent company. Long may it continue - hopefully never to be swallowed by some faceless conglomerate that doesn't understand the product, just bean counting.
dv wrote:But you can do that today already by installing how many versions you want side-by-side!
Is your OS one of those dumb ones that prevent you from doing this?
By "ones" do you mean iOS? Yes, it's stuck on 8.2 on my iPhone, which runs a supported OS ("dumb" or not) so my feature request stands.
Well, I did not have any specific OS in mind, I just do that myself and I wrote that tongue in cheek to see if you were aware of the option
And and I don't use a DAW (hate them, actually), so selecting one Pianoteq version or the other is completely pain free for me.
Sorry if I sounded disrespectful or dismissing rather than the playful I intended to be.
That said, I would not have wanted yet another control, and probably an obscure one, cluttering the already busy interface.
It sounds like Modartt made everybody happy by releasing a legacy instrument pack instead, so no cluttering for people like me and probably as convenient as possible for people like you. Kudos to them!
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
Many thanks for adding this version 80 of the Steinway D. I was back to version 8.1.3 and can now happily return to version 8.2.0. However, after a more in-depth listening to version 8.2 of the Steinway D, I also appreciate it but for a different register.
On this version 8.2, the Bluethner revision is a real treat! Well done!
In addition, I appreciate Pianoteq even more with a new Topping E70 velvet DAC, much more responsive and subtle, thanks to the recent ak4499ex chipset which is clearly better than the ak4495se chipset of my old Aune S6. Once again, I am convinced that Pianoteq deserves the best possible audio equipment downstream...
Bruno
I want to say that, despite the scare over the 8.2 update, since I discovered Pianoteq, it has become my default piano library. I'm thinking of uninstalling the others based on hundreds of gigabytes of samples that take up so much space, and just sticking with Pianoteq, not only because it obviously takes up less space, but because Pianoteq sounds much better than all the others.
The work that the MODARTT guys have done is truly wonderful. To think that it's all physically modeled is really amazing.
Thank you for everything!
PS: In addition, I've managed to install versions 8.1.3 and 8.2 and enjoy both. So... all perfect!
Best regards from Spain.
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
dikrek wrote:thowe wrote:I had fallen in love with Steinways (both D, B) with previous versions. With 8.2 it's now definitely the Blüthner. I hadn't noticed it before.
I've just bought a Blüthner Pack and have already been playing it a lot. 8.2 + Blüthner is now good for falling in love with for me.
Check the Blüthner samples I posted here
https://gearspace.com/board/product-ale...8-a-6.html
Not bare through Pianoteq but how I’d normally process in my DAW
Interesting! Thanks for posting those. Personally, I prefer the HB SD, but then it's all a matter of taste, etc, etc!
I would simply love to play this Prelude as good as it is in your record. I’m struggling learning it
I personally strongly prefer the piano (re)voicings in the latest version of Pianoteq. As others have mentioned, the ringing metallic sound at very high velocities, which sounded unnatural, distorted or exaggerated, is now almost entirely absent, which means that the entire velocity range can be used without having to resort to changing the default linear velocity curve or adjusting the equalization.
One thing I noticed perhaps a couple years ago was that some of the piano pieces used to create samples of the sound of Pianoteq were made from MIDI recordings produced by competitors in the International Piano E-Competition (I believe this fact is (or was) mentioned somewhere within the Modartt website or other text. Ah, here it is: "MIDI and audio files kindly provided by Phil Best, Miles Black, Paul Van Bladel, Lanny Davis, Jan Frans van Dijkhuizen, Blaž Jurjevčič, Andre Louis, Steve O'laughlin, Piet De Ridder, Nadia Shpachenko, Jacob Smullyan, and the Minnesota International Piano-E-Competition", at the bottom of this webpage, for example: https://www.modartt.com/modeld )--
* International Piano E-Competition
https://www.facebook.com/pianoecompetition/
Many of those MIDI files were created by the artist/pianist using a Yamaha Disklavier acoustic grand piano fitted with MIDI recording electronics--
* Yamaha Disklavier grand piano
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical...index.html
And many of those files, downloaded directly from the E-piano competition website, when played back in Pianoteq, rarely exceeded a velocity of 112-114, even when the Yamaha acoustic grand piano was played with great force by the pianists during loud passages of the music. They sounded wonderful when played back through Pianoteq, which made me begin to regard any velocity above perhaps 114-118 as unnecessary, or in the worst cases, detrimental, in Pianoteq. So I would adjust the upper limit of the velocity curve in Pianoteq downward to somewhere between 114 and 118 to limit the velocity range, and the pianos all sounded better to my ears.
With the current version of Pianoteq and the revoicings that were achieved and implemented, it no longer seems necessary to adjust or limit the velocity response. I think all the presets sound much better, even with a simple linear velocity-response curve from 0 to 127. Just a personal opinion.
And many of those files, downloaded directly from the E-piano competition website, when played back in Pianoteq, rarely exceeded a velocity of 112-114, even when the Yamaha acoustic grand piano was played with great force by the pianists during loud passages of the music.
How true! In fact it raises the question of what mean velocities above say 114. It is a crucial calibration question. On real pianos, the maximum strength you can put depends on several factors (including the pianist skills), one of which being how many notes are played simultaneously. When playing one single note, you can really get fffff that go significantly above those from the e-competition, and that is more or less how we understand velocity 127 for Pianoteq. But as 127 is so easy to reach on many digital keyboards, is it the best choice?
So I would adjust the upper limit of the velocity curve in Pianoteq downward to somewhere between 114 and 118 to limit the velocity range, and the pianos all sounded better to my ears.
Thus your suggestion of limiting the range really makes sense. It is an alternative to having under the fingers a keyboard where 127 is as difficult to reach as a one finger blow on an acoustic piano. In any case I am glad that you like the new voicing (and recalibration that came with)!
Yes, this is something that has long bothered me by the majority of keyboards: the fact that you can very easily hit 127. And also too easily play down in the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 range (in normal playing).
Really 127 should be the point at which the hammer breaks a string. My old Kawai, if set to "heavy" touch (which I keep it at) does a decent job of making it pretty difficult to hit 127, but it still triggers it a little more easily than I'd like.
It's also exceedingly difficult to play below a certain very quiet threshold on a piano (at a reasonable tempo). If you very, very slowly press a key, you can sometimes get the hammer to just kiss the string and make a very subtle tone (other times you won't get any sound), but with a normal technique you can't really play at or just above that nearly inaudible volume.
Instead pianists typically play their quietest at a very soft level where they can consistently get the hammers to actually stike the strings. You don't want to have several quiet notes fail to sound (a big danger on a piano that needs regulation). What is that "normal extreme quite playing" MIDI range? I don't know, maybe around 10-20??
Anyway, that's one of the first things you do when you're getting used to a new piano: see what's the quietest you can consistently get the notes to all sound at. Then in the performance, you aim to play just a hair above that.
When playing one single note, you can really get fffff that go significantly above those from the e-competition, and that is more or less how we understand velocity 127 for Pianoteq. But as 127 is so easy to reach on many digital keyboards, is it the best choice?
Yes, your choice for Pianoteq's velocity 127 makes perfect sense. I would hate to see it recalibrated for "cheap" but more common keyboards. Users can always put a velocity cap into Pianoteq if they need to.
Philippe Guillaume wrote:When playing one single note, you can really get fffff that go significantly above those from the e-competition, and that is more or less how we understand velocity 127 for Pianoteq. But as 127 is so easy to reach on many digital keyboards, is it the best choice?
Yes, your choice for Pianoteq's velocity 127 makes perfect sense. I would hate to see it recalibrated for "cheap" but more common keyboards. Users can always put a velocity cap into Pianoteq if they need to.
Strongly agree. Better to not to limit this to the lowest common denominator when this can already be done through custom velocity curves!
A keyboard controller has just one minimum requirement in my opinion. To transmit a MIDI range from 0 to 127. Each of the 128 values has to be available. It has to be calibrated from factory, that each of the 128 values can be played with the best standard deviation or in other words as reproducible as possible.
Personally I don't know such a well factory calibrated MIDI keyboard. Too many seem to be very non-linear in the ppp-p and f-ff range and the effective resolution therefore is much lower than 127.
If this minimum requirement is fullfilled from factory, an individual fine-tuning with optimal results is possible with every release of Pianoteq via internal velocity curves - whether it is version 7.x or 8.2.
I'll weigh in. I notice differences. P515
At first I really loved the Steinway D.. in it's various forms, but mostly I stick with the Jazz or Prelude . I really noticed a better sense of a balanced low register. But became somewhat botherd by C5 (in my context) I have been mainly using the Plugin version of 8.2 in Presonus Studio One - with a Lexicon Reverb plug in. So turned off the reverb on the Pianoteq etc. And that was enough to switch me from the NY to the Hamburg. I'm now using the Hamburg Jazz - with out effects in the Studio one - and it's quite involving. I can say that I never felt attached to the Hamburg in the previous version.
I also feel slightly less attached to the Steinway B - which I created a lovely solo Piano Patch for. I may actually have enjoyed the B the most "several" versions before - but I can't for sure say it's the version - or if its just some sort of preferential bias when comparing different models in the same version. For me, it's not generally the sound I notice - it's just a spooky sense of enhanced or diminished realism. Which now has me wondering..
Is this more... about needing different custom curves for different versions? I'm going through tons of different curves again right now to see if I'm right
[[Ps.. Sidenote: I love the 515. The action is heavy but there's something authentic with it. Yes you have to move your body differently and maybe in a more free way to compensate for the downward weight - and if I don't - I get sore paws after 3 or 4 hours it seems... But those changes now I'm making to my body's ability to receive the weight - actually are starting to look like improvements in expressivity also. I have an uncle who sells Bosendoerfers and Shimmel etc... he was over last weekend, and he was frankly astonished at the key action/connection to pianoteq. Noting it was a "nice" heavy - which on a digital is not something he said about my RD2000 (not to get into a debate - all of these new digitals are absolute blessings for us) I was thinking about grabbing a 525 to try but there's something reassuring to me in the 515 etc ]]
We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.
Hi, thanks for the legacy patch. I have one issue, though, probably my fault:
I have two MacBooks running PTQ. On my older 2013 model the presets loaded just fine, as supposed.
On a newer arm M1 Macbook, however, the file is in the add-ons folder, but I can't see the presets in the preset menu. Tired loading them a couple of times, to no avail. Am I being too thick?
thanks in advance,
Miguel.
_ edited for typo _
Hi, thanks for the legacy patch. I have one issue, though, probably my fault:
I have two MacBooks running PTQ. On my older 2013 model the presets loaded just fine, as supposed.
On a newer arm M1 Macbook, however, the file is in the add-ons folder, but I can't see the presets in the preset menu. Tired loading them a couple of times, to no avail. Am I being too thick?
Did you install and activate the latest Pianoteq version (8.2) on your M1?
yeah, Philippe, I did install PTQ 8.2 on the M1 Mac in all its glory, with all the add-ons.
btw, I really like the new 8.2 version.
thanks
Miguel
yeah, Philippe, I did install PTQ 8.2 on the M1 Mac in all its glory, with all the add-ons.
btw, I really like the new 8.2 version.
thanks
Miguel
Maybe the path isn't set correctly? What happens if you drop the ptq file on the UI?
Philippe Guillaume wrote:We have added a Steinway V80 legacy version, see https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy. It requires to own a Steinway D licence.
For those who want to use a previous preset built on version 8.0, here is how to proceed, for example for the NY Steinway D:
- login the user area, follow the link above and download STEINWAYDV80.ptq,
- drop it on Pianoteq 8.2 interface (or directly in your addons folder),
- load the old preset you want to use, say in "A", and load any V80 preset in "B", for example NY Steinway D Classical [V80]
- click again on "A" (your preset), click on the copy button at the top of the UI, select all parameters except "instrument",
- click on "B", click on the paste button,
- save your preset with an appropriate name.Hi, thanks for the legacy patch. I have one issue, though, probably my fault:
I have two MacBooks running PTQ. On my older 2013 model the presets loaded just fine, as supposed.
On a newer arm M1 Macbook, however, the file is in the add-ons folder, but I can't see the presets in the preset menu. Tired loading them a couple of times, to no avail. Am I being too thick?thanks in advance,
Miguel._ edited for typo _
Perhaps all you need to do is scroll down the instrument list - the V80 Steinways appear underneath K2, maybe not where you'd expect them to be.
thanks for the reply, guys
Maybe the path isn't set correctly? What happens if you drop the ptq file on the UI?
The result is the same whether I double click the file or drag and drop it to the UI. Again, the add-on is currently in the add-ons folder, saem as with the Kivir and bells add-ons
also, it's not further down the menu tree. on my older Mac, I can find it easily. it's just on this one. strange....
thanks again,
Miguel.
thanks for the reply, guys
Philippe Guillaume wrote:Maybe the path isn't set correctly? What happens if you drop the ptq file on the UI?
The result is the same whether I double click the file or drag and drop it to the UI. Again, the add-on is currently in the add-ons folder, saem as with the Kivir and bells add-ons
also, it's not further down the menu tree. on my older Mac, I can find it easily. it's just on this one. strange....
thanks again,
Miguel.
Looks strange indeed. I suggest you contact the support (provide screenshots).
Looks strange indeed. I suggest you contact the support (provide screenshots).
no need, I was being super thick on this one (as usual)... on my newest computer (which is not permanently connected to the MIDI keyboard) I still ahdn´t updated PTQ 8.1 to PTQ 8.2....
anyway, all cool now.
sorry for wasting your time, and thanks for bearing with me.
Nice, problem solved