Topic by lwhite2

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Topic: Aftertones

I am getting unappealing after tones with Pianoteq 8 STD.  With short duration notes it's not a problem but with sustaining notes a metallic oscillating tone is there.  I've tried playing with different parameters and cannot get the tone I am expecting from demos I have heard on Youtube.

I was surprised to find when I tried the built in Blues Demo it sounds great on all the presets.  Now I think it's my controller.

I originally thought aftertouch might be a problem, but I don't see any parameters with NY Steinway D.  Am I missing something?

Any suggestions ?

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Aftertones

lwhite2 wrote:

I am getting unappealing after tones with Pianoteq 8 STD.  With short duration notes it's not a problem but with sustaining notes a metallic oscillating tone is there.  I've tried playing with different parameters and cannot get the tone I am expecting from demos I have heard on Youtube.

I was surprised to find when I tried the built in Blues Demo it sounds great on all the presets.  Now I think it's my controller.

I originally thought aftertouch might be a problem, but I don't see any parameters with NY Steinway D.  Am I missing something?

Any suggestions ?

What model of keyboard?

You might have a keyboard that goes to maximum velocity too easily.
Custom velocity curves might help, however keyboards with mechanically too easy an action are hard or impossible to fully compensate for.
At very least you will want graded hammer action for the main piano sounds.

Reply by lwhite2

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Re: Aftertones

I have a M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49.  I will try and find the After touch settings to test out the effects on Piano presets.  The Pianoteq Aftertouch settings don't seem to do much for my setup.

I did the Velocity calibration, but didn't improve this issue.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Last edited by lwhite2 (14-11-2023 19:19)

Reply by miiindbullets

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Re: Aftertones

Have you tried messing with Sympathetic Resonance values?

When I first got back into playing piano a few years ago I picked up an Oxygen Pro as my first controller. I couldn't ever get it to respond the way I wished it would with piano libraries, so I watched Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace until I found a good deal on a used Roland FP-30 -- it was night and day difference. Around here, you can pick up a decent fully weighted keyboard for $300ish if you keep an eye out, or $500ish on average. Not sure if that's an option for you, but I was never able to get very precise control over the dynamic range with the Oxygen Pro, even when calibrated.

As far as I understand it, aftertouch just controls pitch bends in Pianoteq, but it doesn't do that by default. You might have already found this, but if you click the arrow to the left of the velocity curve so it says "Aftertouch", and then drag the AT point on the far right all the way to the top, you'll be able to hear the difference. It's super useful on the guitar and can be interesting on other instruments. I don't think it should be causing any extra metallic sounds, though.

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Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Aftertones

lwhite2 wrote:

I have a M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49.  I will try and find the After touch settings to test out the effects on Piano presets.  The Pianoteq Aftertouch settings don't seem to do much for my setup.

I did the Velocity calibration, but didn't improve this issue.

Thanks for the suggestions.

That action is too light for predictable response from your finger tips. Custom curves can be made to ensure that you never hit the maximum velocity. That concession will still make the sound overly polite, but it won't be brash harsh and hard. That's not finally honing or refining the output from an appropriate keyboard mechanism,  instead it's a compromise accepting the limitations.

Generally with a synth type action you as the player will be trying to treat the keys with kid gloves not to trigger the maximum velocity, but you'll still end up with velocity response lurching from far too little to too much, sometimes simultaneously on the same hand.

The likes of a low end second-hand Casio digital piano keyboard or graded hammer action controller can we had for little money these days.

Reply by lwhite2

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Re: Aftertones

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I did find the Aftertouch setting for the controller, but didn't have much effect.

Guitar is my main instrument and I worked with Organ when I was younger.  I like the controller for controlling my synths, so a lighter action was what I was used to.

I am trying to get better at piano without having taken lessons and loved the responsiveness of pianoteq.  I have to confess what it's maybe my organ/synth playing style that is bringing these tones out along this the lighter keys. If I use some demo midi with the presets, it's what I expect to hear.

I will play more with the velocity curves and the other parameters.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Aftertones

lwhite2 wrote:

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I did find the Aftertouch setting for the controller, but didn't have much effect.

Guitar is my main instrument and I worked with Organ when I was younger.  I like the controller for controlling my synths, so a lighter action was what I was used to.

I am trying to get better at piano without having taken lessons and loved the responsiveness of pianoteq.  I have to confess what it's maybe my organ/synth playing style that is bringing these tones out along this the lighter keys. If I use some demo midi with the presets, it's what I expect to hear.

I will play more with the velocity curves and the other parameters.

Aftertouch should have no effect on any of the pianos, unless you program an effect in specifying aftertouch.
With a mono aftertouch/channel pressure strip it takes some significant pressure to engage an after effect such as bending a string on an early instrument.

This effect won't help with velocity response and response curve issues.

When synth keys you might want to limit dynamic range and limit the keys to not trigger the maximum velocities. You could end up with something akin to older  Workstation keyboard pianos.

Reply by lwhite2

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Re: Aftertones

More experimenting.  I tried a different set of speakers and headphones and don't find it as noticeable. 

Looks like I need to find a good deal this coming Black Friday.

Reply by lwhite2

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Re: Aftertones

I may have discovered the main problem.  I have small Mackie speakers and I tried to reverse the polarity on one, and that might have done the trick.  I still might look around for a good deal on a new set of monitors, but it's not as big a deal.

Thanks for all the suggestions.