Topic by jonfrommaine

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Topic: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

I'm mixing the internal sound system on my Kawai NV10S with external Yamaha HS7s and a HS8s sub. I've noticed that the notes in the first two octaves over middle C are very pronounced, overly percussive and unmusical through the HS7s (not so through the NV10s speakers, but the overall sound is boxy, hence my use of the external monitors). I've tried tweaking settings (velocity curve, hammer hardness, resonance) on Pianoteq and the other VSTs I use, but can't seem to get a sound I like (as compared to headphones and even what I get through smaller Presonus monitors + internal sound on my Yamaha P515). I've also tried using dynamic EQ plugins to cut down the range of notes, but I'm still unhappy with the result. I also have the tweeter cutoff switch on the HS7s set at -2db though I'm thinking that the problem frequencies are actually rendered by the upper range of the woofer. I have the volume and cutoff on the HS8s sub both set fairly low. It's really just to provide some extra low end (especially for Organtec).

Bases on some reports I've read about midrange problems with the HS7, I've come to the conclusion that it may be time to consider trying another set of monitors and I've narrowed it down to the Adam A8H or the Genelec 8050B. I'm leaning towards the Adams because

1. They're 3 way, with a dedicated mid-range speaker
2. They're front ported (my monitors are against the wall and I can't change this
3. I like the more conventional appearance
4. I'd also like to use these speakers with my stereo to supplement my PSB tower speakers, which are on the other side of the room, and the A8H are billed as a 'near-field/mid-field' monitor (not sure if this is marketing or they do actually have a wider dispersion)

A lot of people swear by the 8050B and they've been around for a while, whereas the A8H is fairly new. I've heard some complaints about the brightness of the ribbon tweeter and also about reliability in the Adams speaker line. My speakers are on stands behind my piano, about 3 feet from where I'm sitting, and wondering if that's too close for these speakers.

Is anyone currently using the A8H with a digital piano and have comments? Also, can you comment on the 'room sound' further away?

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

"2. They're front ported (my monitors are against the wall and I can't change this".
Very, very important indeed...
I had to change my own setup just because of the same issue.

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Reply by skipgilles

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

I have rather extensively tried a number of different monitors. I had a rather dynamic recording of pianoteq playing through many cheaper and more expensive monitors and been listening literally for hours.
My favorite among the more affordable monitors was by far the Adam HS8, for being very clean, and flat, no "wobbly basses" as many other cheaper small monitors have. Also, the trebles didn't get annoying as others do after long exposure. Only when I tried the *much* more expensive Neumann KH monitors, I noticed that there was still something to wish for. Had I not heard the Neumans, had I certainly bought the Adams and been happy with them. (where I did hear superiority in the Neumans is the middle. Very powerful and "diverse". On all other boxes including the Adams, the middle has a kind of same mess, no matter which chord you play you play. This makes your ears a bit tired after long exposure. The "messy middle palette" on the Neumans is much less messy and sounds different on each different chord.

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

skipgilles wrote:

I have rather extensively tried a number of different monitors. I had a rather dynamic recording of pianoteq playing through many cheaper and more expensive monitors and been listening literally for hours.
My favorite among the more affordable monitors was by far the Adam HS8, for being very clean, and flat, no "wobbly basses" as many other cheaper small monitors have. Also, the trebles didn't get annoying as others do after long exposure. Only when I tried the *much* more expensive Neumann KH monitors, I noticed that there was still something to wish for. Had I not heard the Neumans, had I certainly bought the Adams and been happy with them. (where I did hear superiority in the Neumans is the middle. Very powerful and "diverse". On all other boxes including the Adams, the middle has a kind of same mess, no matter which chord you play you play. This makes your ears a bit tired after long exposure. The "messy middle palette" on the Neumans is much less messy and sounds different on each different chord.

And this just adds to what I've written: front ports (like all Neumann models...) are really something important. I once resold monitors (Quad) which were of good quality but unusable just because of this.
Well, that said, the quality of the Neumann's low midrange is probably a cut above the rest as well... hence the price...

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Reply by jonfrommaine

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

skipgilles wrote:

I have rather extensively tried a number of different monitors. I had a rather dynamic recording of pianoteq playing through many cheaper and more expensive monitors and been listening literally for hours.
My favorite among the more affordable monitors was by far the Adam HS8, for being very clean, and flat, no "wobbly basses" as many other cheaper small monitors have. Also, the trebles didn't get annoying as others do after long exposure. Only when I tried the *much* more expensive Neumann KH monitors, I noticed that there was still something to wish for. Had I not heard the Neumans, had I certainly bought the Adams and been happy with them. (where I did hear superiority in the Neumans is the middle. Very powerful and "diverse". On all other boxes including the Adams, the middle has a kind of same mess, no matter which chord you play you play. This makes your ears a bit tired after long exposure. The "messy middle palette" on the Neumans is much less messy and sounds different on each different chord.

Considered the Neumann KH 310D, but at $1K more per speaker than the A8H, I really can't justify the cost. Not great to hear 'the middle is a mess' on the A8H, as that's really the range I'm looking to improve. Did you play with the equalization/voicings on the A8H? Also curious what the nearfield (4') and mid-field (10') sound was like on the A8H. Again, the Neumann's look nice, but the A8H (3K/pair) is the absolute max I'm willing to spend on these. I know you didn't pick them but you're actually the first person on any piano forum who's actually heard them reproducing a piano.

Reply by jonfrommaine

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

skipgilles wrote:

I have rather extensively tried a number of different monitors. I had a rather dynamic recording of pianoteq playing through many cheaper and more expensive monitors and been listening literally for hours.
My favorite among the more affordable monitors was by far the Adam HS8, for being very clean, and flat, no "wobbly basses" as many other cheaper small monitors have. Also, the trebles didn't get annoying as others do after long exposure. Only when I tried the *much* more expensive Neumann KH monitors, I noticed that there was still something to wish for. Had I not heard the Neumans, had I certainly bought the Adams and been happy with them. (where I did hear superiority in the Neumans is the middle. Very powerful and "diverse". On all other boxes including the Adams, the middle has a kind of same mess, no matter which chord you play you play. This makes your ears a bit tired after long exposure. The "messy middle palette" on the Neumans is much less messy and sounds different on each different chord.

Hope you’re right! I just scored a good deal on a lightly used pair of KH 310s.

Reply by skipgilles

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

Ha, wow, hope you enjoy them a much as I do! I think it's very unlikely you get disappointed.

One more note on why I like them so much and what about the "messy middles". Maybe it helps when I describe my literal experience: I had listened to this pianoteq recording on a number of "normally priced" monitors, including the Adams (and also these white-conus yamaha's and two other brands I can't remember) for about one hour and a half. I was very sure I liked the Adams better than the others, since they were the only ones without a frequency that started hurting my ears after long exposure and a good realistic bass portion.

I was more or less decided when my friend who worked at the shop brought me these Neumans "for fun". After 5 minutes of listening I was not impressed and judged them as almost indistinguishable from the Adams. They only sounded a bit more powerful, as if there was more headroom (which is actually the case).

Only after like 15 minutes, the difference started to grow on me: the extreme clarity in the middles. Every chord, and even each repetition of the same chord (thanks to pianoteq being so great) sounding subtly different.

So that's how I decided to spend much more than I planned on monitors. As said, I would likely have been happy with the Adams too. What I am sure about is that I am very happy now!

Reply by CircleOfFifths

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

skipgilles wrote:

I have rather extensively tried a number of different monitors. I had a rather dynamic recording of pianoteq playing through many cheaper and more expensive monitors and been listening literally for hours.
My favorite among the more affordable monitors was by far the Adam HS8, for being very clean, and flat, no "wobbly basses" as many other cheaper small monitors have. Also, the trebles didn't get annoying as others do after long exposure. Only when I tried the *much* more expensive Neumann KH monitors, I noticed that there was still something to wish for. Had I not heard the Neumans, had I certainly bought the Adams and been happy with them. (where I did hear superiority in the Neumans is the middle. Very powerful and "diverse". On all other boxes including the Adams, the middle has a kind of same mess, no matter which chord you play you play. This makes your ears a bit tired after long exposure. The "messy middle palette" on the Neumans is much less messy and sounds different on each different chord.

Adam HS8...?! Or Yamaha HS8, or Adam..?? Please clarify, there is no Adam HS8 model. Thanks!

Reply by jonfrommaine

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Re: Replacement speakers for Yamaha HS7

My bad, it was the Adam A8Hs I was considering, but ended up with a pair of Neumann KH 310a monitors for just a few hundred more than the Adams. Not being able to hear either first hand, I was a little leary of a the ribbon tweater and thought the Neumanns would be more 'old school musical'. Just hooked them up. I spent a long time adjusting the settings in the back but got a sound I really liked for the against-the-wall location. They are not limited to nearfield listening, which I was concerned about, and they fill my livingroom but also great at the piano (with volume turned down a bit via Cantabile settings). I've been removing all the equalizer plugins, putting hammer hardness and velocity curve back to normal after all the adjustments I made trying to 'fix' the HS7s. Beautiful speakers. Happy.