Topic: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

Hello all,
To preface, I'm a beginner to both piano, the Pianoteq software, and VST's in general.

I was able to setup my midi keyboard (Casio PX-330) to my PC via a USB-A to USB-B and have no issues with having Pianoteq output sounds. What I've learned however is that I can no longer get output from other apps from my PC while Pianoteq is running (ex: youtube, music playback software, etc.). Once Pianoteq is launched, all sound output is being dedicated to the Pianoteq software. One scenario I would like to do is to "play along" to songs I'm learning via youtube.

I did a bit of research and it seems I would need another soundcard to accomplish this: Internal sound interface for Pianoteq/MIDI keyboard ouput and external soundcard for all other PC sound output (or configured vice versa).

Before I pull the trigger on a soundcard, am I perhaps missing a configuration that would allow both sound outputs? Or is additional hardware required to do the above?


Thanks all!

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

beeze22 wrote:

... What I've learned however is that I can no longer get output from other apps from my PC while Pianoteq is running (ex: youtube, music playback software, etc.). Once Pianoteq is launched, all sound output is being dedicated to the Pianoteq software. One scenario I would like to do is to "play along" to songs I'm learning via youtube. ... Before I pull the trigger on a soundcard, am I perhaps missing a configuration that would allow both sound outputs? Or is additional hardware required to do the above?

In Linux (I don't use Windows) one can install an app, JACK (Jack Audio Connection Kit), that can be used to route audio into the computer and to apps, from one app (or several) to another app (or several), and from one or more apps to the same output (such as the stereo soundcard headphone/speaker port).

In the Windows universe, there may exist an app that has the same or similar functionality.

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EDIT-- In fact, JACK, originally produced for Linux, is (and has been for some time) available for Windows as well, although Windows-users may have some additional setup or configuration issues to resolve.
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JACK for Windows -- https://jackaudio.org/faq/jack_on_windows.html


Here (refer to the image below) I am playing Pianoteq and Organteq at the same time (and unseen, minimized, a Youtube video in the Firefox browser). The MIDI output of the digital keyboard, as it enters the computer, is routed to both Pianoteq and Organteq. Both of those apps respond and produce their own sound; their audio output is then manually routed (using JACK's graphical user interface graph) to the computer soundcard's audio-out port. The YouTube video's audio is automatically sent by Firefox to the "Pulse In" inputs shown in JACK (PulseAudio is one of the standard Linux sound systems installed by default when any type of Linux is installed), and JACK's "Pulse Out" is connected to the system's (soundcard's) audio out port. So all three apps (Pianoteq, Organteq and YouTube) are heard at the same time, through the headphones or speakers attached to the computer's audio-out port.

https://i.postimg.cc/QdKJ3TwK/Pianoteq-...g-JACK.jpg

Happy troubleshooting.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (09-10-2023 03:55)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

beeze22 wrote:

Before I pull the trigger on a soundcard, am I perhaps missing a configuration that would allow both sound outputs? Or is additional hardware required to do the above?

Assuming this is Windows (because you mentioned VSTs) — no promises this will work, but try:

First, take a look in the Pianoteq standalone at Options > Devices and see what is in “Audio device type.” If it says “Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode), that’s the problem. If “ASIO” is an option, use that. Otherwise, try “Windows Audio (Low Latency Mode).”

If the above doesn’t fix it, take a look at Start menu > Settings (the gear on the left) > System > Sound > Device Properties > Additional device properties > Advanced and see if changing “Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” makes any difference.

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

You could try using Asio4all. It will allow you to use both internal soundcard and any external soundcard.

I recommend either Audient or SSL soundcards as the also make major professional rig stuff. They put their technology also in budget usb audio interfaces (soundcards).

Any other recommendations welcome. I'm no oracle.

Warmest regards,

Chris

https://audient.com/products/audio-inte.../overview/

https://www.solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2

Last edited by sigasa (09-10-2023 20:03)

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

Not all audio interfaces support this. You'll want to look for an interface that is fully "multi-client" capable. Unfortunately many of the audio interfaces that do support it, don't advertise it. You can however find lists online. I believe NI interfaces all support it, as do a few other brands I don't remember off the top of my head... MOTU and RME I think?

This is one of the reasons I ended up moving to Linux for audio specific use. There is a JACK-like program available for Windows, which isn't free, and which I tried briefly years back, but it didn't solve all my issues. It might work for what you need if you want to avoid a good audio interface. The company that makes it has several programs, and now I can't remember which is which: https://vb-audio.com/index.htm

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

beeze22 wrote:

Hello all,

Before I pull the trigger on a soundcard, am I perhaps missing a configuration that would allow both sound outputs? Or is additional hardware required to do the above?

You could try a free software to do this. I highly recommend Voicemeter, It even comes with inbuild ASIO.

https://vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm

Music was my first love. And it will be my last. Music of the future. And music of the past (John Miles)

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

Hello all,
Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I was able to play around and learned some things.

- I was able to fix my audio issue with Coises' suggestion by changing the "Audio Device Type" from ASIO (ASIO4ALL v2) to Windows low latency. One thing I'm noticing when testing between the two device types however is that there is a very small touch of lag introduced in the Windows Low Latency Mode. I could be imagining this and it certainly doesn't impact what I'm trying to do, especially at my skill level.

- I also appreciate the other suggestions regarding JACK and it got me thinking; Perhaps my original intention of buying a new sound card would eventually have me end up needing a mixer (digital or physical) in the end? I was looking to have all of the sounds to one output, my headphones (or desk speakers), and from what I'm gathering here, I would need a mixer to join the output of the two sound cards into the input of my headphones, much like the diagram Stephen_Doonan had posted of their JACK setup.
Perhaps a follow-up for my own curiosity: Does adding in mixers and what not introduce noticeable delay/lag? I know nothing of audio production and the workings behind it but playing around with the Audio Buffer sizes in PianoTeq made me realize that this can be a huge rabbit hole when equipment starts to expand.


Thanks all!

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

beeze22 wrote:

Does adding in mixers and what not introduce noticeable delay/lag?

Minimizing delay (latency) is usually a priority among those who use digital audio apps such as DAWs and virtual instruments such as Pianoteq and Organteq.

In Linux, this is achieved by using or configuring several things: using a low-latency audio router (JACK), enabling real-time priority use of the computer's CPU for audio use (something that can be done manually or done for the user by another app such as Ubuntu Studio Controls), installing a low-latency variant of the Linux kernel, and configuring the audio output buffer to as low a number as possible (such as 64, 96 or 128 samples per buffer, and perhaps 2 or 3 buffers (periods)).

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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

beeze22 wrote:

One thing I'm noticing when testing between the two device types however is that there is a very small touch of lag introduced in the Windows Low Latency Mode. I could be imagining this and it certainly doesn't impact what I'm trying to do, especially at my skill level.

You are probably not imagining it. I find it quite annoying to use anything but ASIO. That little bit of lag (called “latency”) is still enough to be disconcerting.

beeze22 wrote:

Perhaps my original intention of buying a new sound card would eventually have me end up needing a mixer (digital or physical) in the end?

Rather that try to use two audio interfaces at once (I haven’t tried that, but I would hardly be surprised if it causes new problems), get a single interface that supports ASIO with its own drivers (rather than needing ASIO4ALL) and permits multiple streams at once. The one I have — the Roland Quad-Capture — has no problem with this. It’s been discontinued, but I suspect many, if not most professional interfaces can do this, too. It does matter, though, to have an interface that’s designed for musicians and recording engineers, rather than one meant for typical consumers or gamers. (I have no personal experience with them, but a lot of people seem to like the Focusrite Scarlett line. People love RME interfaces, but they are quite expensive.)

Most folks use a USB audio interface rather than a sound card these days. Not that there’s anything wrong with sound cards in principle, but there are few now made for musicians aside from some very expensive gear.

Re: Simultaneous sound output for both Pianoteq software & PC apps

In my experience, the following devices I owned the last 10 or 12 years can achieve what you want:
MiniDSP 2x4HD
ESI UDJ6
Behringer UMC 404HD
Behringer UMC 204HD
Focusrite 2i2