Topic by jmart194

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Topic: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

I've written to Pianoteq help about this twice and gotten no response. Any help to better explain what could potentially be happening to my version of Pianoteq that I booted it up and playing a C gets a G a 4th below, any other shared experiences that could let me know it wasn't an isolated incident, much appreciated. I've read that this isn't a support forum, but I'd prefer to break a few conventions if it got me an answer within 2 weeks or less.

Decent sampler works totally fine. Completely flummuxed by why it's Pianoteq, and why now it'd be doing that.

Reply by martinoduma

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

Well, that wouldn't have sold many copies if it all played one 4th below, right? I suggest you to double-check your MIDI chain, every single device - both software and hardware - that takes place in your MIDI chain before Pianoteq gets the MIDI IN signal. And, if you are going to break conventions, at least do it properly next time. There is not a single piece of information about what's your actual system setup (Standalone/DAW, etc etc)

Reply by stephenll

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

Under Options > MIDI, are you seeing the expected note being sent to Pianoteq? See section 2.7 in the manual to see what this looks like.

I was getting unexpected sounds and it turns out my keyboard resets its controllers when I change programs.  Since I had assigned a few of the controllers to dynamics in Pianoteq the keyboard was changing the dynamics in the loaded preset every time.

Reply by jmart194

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

martinoduma wrote:

Well, that wouldn't have sold many copies if it all played one 4th below, right? I suggest you to double-check your MIDI chain, every single device - both software and hardware - that takes place in your MIDI chain before Pianoteq gets the MIDI IN signal. And, if you are going to break conventions, at least do it properly next time. There is not a single piece of information about what's your actual system setup (Standalone/DAW, etc etc)

Thank you for your help, you're absolutely right. Ok. So, I'm trying to use it standalone. I have a Roland RD 700, which I have connected to a Dell Latitude E7270 UltraBook Screen Business Laptop (Intel Core i5-6300U, 8GB Ram, 256GB Solid State SSD, HDMI, Camera, WiFi, Smart Card Reader) Win 10 Pro (Renewed) (copied the description from Amazon) via a MIDI to USB connection. Then, I got a Behringer UMC 22 connected to the same computer. I had to download ASIO4ALL because there's no proprietary drivers for the Behringers that are that dinky. So I set my sound to USB Audio Codec, and then I have an RCA to 1/4'' to port that whole business to a keyboard amp. I have upgraded Pianoteq to the latest version in the last 2 days, so 8.1.3. When I press a C on the Roland, I see a C on the on screen Pianoteq keyboard. What sounds is a G. So I'm telling the computer C, it's showing me a C, and then I'm hearing a G. This has happened in the last week, and I can't for the life of me figure out why that suddenly started happening.

Reply by martinoduma

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

jmart194 wrote:

When I press a C on the Roland, I see a C on the on screen Pianoteq keyboard. What sounds is a G. So I'm telling the computer C, it's showing me a C, and then I'm hearing a G. This has happened in the last week, and I can't for the life of me figure out why that suddenly started happening.

Ok. In standalone, go to "Options" (located right under the BPM, at top-right in the main window) and to section -> MIDI.

Then, play your "middle C", which should be MIDI Note 60, by standard. Just for confirmation, check if that number pops up into "The latest MIDI messages received will appear here" entry. Also, make sure that the "Notes Transposition" value (located at the bottom of this same section) is set to 0.

From what you said, even if you directly click with your mouse onto Pianoteq's keyboard, and right onto that "middle C", still it will sound like that which, by standard, is a MIDI Note 55 (down a "4th")

So you might want to exit this menu and check the advanced tuning menu: enter that by clicking on the + button in the "Tuning" panel (the left one in the main interface). Have a look at the "Keyboard Mapping" and make sure that "Default mapping (linear)" is selected. Same for "Diapason": by stanard, make sure it is set at 440 Hz (and that "Temperament" is "Equal Temperament")

If this doesn't fix it, then I don't know. I do not use Standalone version and never encountered such a problem.

Reply by jmart194

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

martinoduma wrote:
jmart194 wrote:

When I press a C on the Roland, I see a C on the on screen Pianoteq keyboard. What sounds is a G. So I'm telling the computer C, it's showing me a C, and then I'm hearing a G. This has happened in the last week, and I can't for the life of me figure out why that suddenly started happening.

Ok. In standalone, go to "Options" (located right under the BPM, at top-right in the main window) and to section -> MIDI.

Then, play your "middle C", which should be MIDI Note 60, by standard. Just for confirmation, check if that number pops up into "The latest MIDI messages received will appear here" entry. Also, make sure that the "Notes Transposition" value (located at the bottom of this same section) is set to 0.

From what you said, even if you directly click with your mouse onto Pianoteq's keyboard, and right onto that "middle C", still it will sound like that which, by standard, is a MIDI Note 55 (down a "4th")

So you might want to exit this menu and check the advanced tuning menu: enter that by clicking on the + button in the "Tuning" panel (the left one in the main interface). Have a look at the "Keyboard Mapping" and make sure that "Default mapping (linear)" is selected. Same for "Diapason": by stanard, make sure it is set at 440 Hz (and that "Temperament" is "Equal Temperament")

If this doesn't fix it, then I don't know. I do not use Standalone version and never encountered such a problem.

Ok I did it and turns out I couldn't edit the tuning even if I wanted to by mistake because I have the "Stage" version rather than the Pro or the other guy. But thank you for trying to troubleshoot it. I sent two emails to Pianoteq, one 2 months ago, and one a week ago and got bupkis from them. So I really appreciate you volunteering a solution. If you think there's some special "stop the subway with a pull cord" last ditch thing I could do to motivate them to reach out, let me know. I haven't attempted calling them, but I think that might be problematic as I think they're in France.

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

martinoduma wrote:

[... Also, make sure that the "Notes Transposition" value (located at the bottom of this same section (Options-->MIDI)) is set to 0."

Did you do that? Pianoteq's Options window, MIDI pane is the same in the Stage version as in the Pro version.

I have never used Windows as my daily OS, so I have no idea, but a Google search for the problem yielded a few webpages--

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win...848bfab3be

https://www.techantena.com/3247/change-...o-manager/

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win...23007686cf

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win...35c7cd56c8

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (05-10-2023 01:54)
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Reply by martinoduma

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

jmart194 wrote:

If you think there's some special "stop the subway with a pull cord" last ditch thing I could do to motivate them to reach out, let me know.

My service is NOTHING compared to what Moddart company does on a daily basis. Look, this virtual instrument is not just a "guy", it's a professional software used *worldwide* by people who know a couple of things, and it's been up for ages. If your system is so particular that it's messing with it then it will all be revealed and solved. However other users here have just provided you with additional info for you to consider, and, eventually, understand that, perhaps, the problem might lie outside of Pianoteq "responsability". Ok?

jmart194 wrote:

This has happened in the last week, and I can't for the life of me figure out why that suddenly started happening.

jmart194 wrote:

I sent two emails to Pianoteq, one 2 months ago

I suggest you to evaluate any possible effort that you can still make on your own before resorting to their assistance and then make it. All in all it seems to me that everything was working 100% prior to a certain point, wasn't it? When you ask them "something", technically, they are supposed to replicate an entire environment along with system settings being as identical as yours, as much as possible. Have you ever put yourself in the producer's shoes? Ask yourself how much time-consuming would be, if it turned out that the customer was simply missing a stupid detail from his/her own part. I don't know if this is the case, but did you do anything right to ascertain that they must have the solution and not you?

I don't have what you ask for, but if you show a spirit of collaboration and focus on communicating most relevant aspects, chances are that more experienced users will show up and sort something for the better. Read carefully what they say, or any attempt in the forum will be vain. I repeat, I have never encountered this specific issue, so my help is limited. Also, my system is completely different. Most probably it is exactly because of this, if I've never encountered that. If you really want to know, I've got another completely unique issue with Pianoteq, making my DAW crash. They replied with email very reasonably and in short times and now there is all a process to be made whereby I'm supposed to run more tests under certain conditions as they weren't able to replicate the crash. I haven't figured it out yet as I don't have time right now for that but it is on my priority list, that's for sure. Just because they are not giving you an immediate answer doesn't mean they're scam. So...what are you going to try and do? Please let us know. Thanks.

Reply by jmart194

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
martinoduma wrote:

[... Also, make sure that the "Notes Transposition" value (located at the bottom of this same section (Options-->MIDI)) is set to 0."

Did you do that? Pianoteq's Options window, MIDI pane is the same in the Stage version as in the Pro version.

I have never used Windows as my daily OS, so I have no idea, but a Google search for the problem yielded a few webpages--

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win...848bfab3be

https://www.techantena.com/3247/change-...o-manager/

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win...23007686cf

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win...35c7cd56c8

I did!

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

If this were happening to me, I would suspect that if some MIDI eccentricity or misconfiguration cannot be determined to be at fault, then something in the audio chain (after the audio leaves Pianoteq) might cause the issue. I would test the issue by using both a synthesizer plugin that produces its own frequencies/pitches of sound (rather than DecentSampler which utilizes samples) and the Pianoteq plugin in the same DAW, subject to the same MIDI/audio settings, to see if the pitch change issue exists in both.

Good luck. Happy troubleshooting.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (05-10-2023 13:13)
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Reply by jmart194

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

If this were happening to me, I would suspect that if some MIDI eccentricity or misconfiguration cannot be determined to be at fault, then something in the audio chain (after the audio leaves Pianoteq) might cause the issue. I would test the issue by using both a synthesizer plugin that produces its own frequencies/pitches of sound (rather than DecentSampler which utilizes samples) and the Pianoteq plugin in the same DAW, subject to the same MIDI/audio settings, to see if the pitch change issue exists in both.

Good luck. Happy troubleshooting.

Ah I never considered that Decent Sampler, by having a different system, wouldn't be an effective way to determine whether there was a fault in whatever MIDI information my RD 700 was sending to the laptop! Brilliant. So I guess I'll test the in-house MIDI synth in Reaper, ReaSynth and see if that is also the same, and if it is, I could tweak it back so that it worked again in Pianoteq. I'm mentioning that I'm doing this because I wanted to give you an opportunity if you knew if ReaSynth wasn't a similar system to Pianoteq, for the obvious reason that if it wasn't, I'd want to conduct a test with a different MIDI program.

Reply by georg

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

jmart194 wrote:

When I press a C on the Roland, I see a C on the on screen Pianoteq keyboard. What sounds is a G. So I'm telling the computer C, it's showing me a C, and then I'm hearing a G.

So you play C and Pianoteq shows C, but it sound like a G?
I had similiar issue with an other software...
Reason in my case was the conversion 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz.
Please check your audio settings in drivers and software, check your complete audio chain (input and output, default windows audio driver and asio driver). They all have to use same sample rate!

Last edited by georg (05-10-2023 14:16)

Reply by jmart194

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

georg wrote:
jmart194 wrote:

When I press a C on the Roland, I see a C on the on screen Pianoteq keyboard. What sounds is a G. So I'm telling the computer C, it's showing me a C, and then I'm hearing a G.

So you play C and Pianoteq shows C, but it sound like a G?
I had similiar issue with an other software...
Reason in my case was the conversion 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz.
Please check your audio settings in drivers and software, check your complete audio chain (input and output, default windows audio driver and asio driver). They all have to use same sample rate!

It was fixed by changing the sample rate to 11025 Hz from 8000. You found it! Also, on a separate note, part of the reason I saw that Pianoteq wasn't ever getting back to me is that all the emails were sent to spam! So another mystery solved. Thanks everybody for your help!

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Transposing down a 4th for seemingly no reason

Wowo - Glad you saw this thread georg. A lot of people with A OK systems working well can get to know a lot of ways to make things work better on their end - but every so often something unbelievably oblique can emerge to become a true mystery for a while.. few might think to find it, let alone fix it. Really good catch there!

This is such a good example of how something really strange can seem like a bunch of other typical issues up front.

Re. spam filters.. we've seen this a few times on the forum and it's a problem as old as email itself.. user kind of justifiably upset, only later to find all the well intended support replies are just languishing un-read in the trash folder.

@jmart194, really hope you have fun and success with Pianoteq without any more glitchy-ness - but just in case something might become a head-scratcher in time, I'm inspired to share this nice resource here again - it may cover some other things as you keep your music machine running strong into the future..

"Glitch Free - Cantabile" An in-depth guide to tuning Windows for reliable real-time audio performance. A free eBook..

Cheers - and sincerely well done to everyone trying to solve the issue! Time for me to spend lately is extra scarce but it warms my heart seeing so many here, friendly, trying to work out what's going on. Anyway, every now and again I'll feel that enough to say it, and mean it - the people of this excellent forum genuinely makes my day, often.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors