Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

LTECpiano wrote:

With all due respect to the SWAM Big Band Walkthrough ... here is yours truly playing my Hammond XB-3M (from 2001 - 22 years ago)


https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...%20You.mp3

Definitely a worthy comparison.
That still sounds comparable in quality for the big band brass sound . 
I think I am with Fred on this one though too. The strength of the SWAM products is mainly in individual solo performance. Certainly that's what I want mainly from using wind controllers.

Last edited by Key Fumbler (29-08-2023 13:47)

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

Key Fumbler wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:

With all due respect to the SWAM Big Band Walkthrough ... here is yours truly playing my Hammond XB-3M (from 2001 - 22 years ago)


https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...%20You.mp3

Definitely a worthy comparison.
That still sounds comparable in quality for the big band brass sound . 
I think I am with Fred on this one though too. The strength of the SWAM products is mainly in individual solo performance. Certainly that's what I want mainly from using wind controllers.

Swam’s are much better in all areas not only for solo parts
When playing a Sample bank even if part of a hardware synth you play the same sample on all instruments when you play a chord on your keyboard
In an orchestra each instrument sound differently (if you have 10 1st violin each of them sound different and are plaid differently by each individual players they are not perfectly synchronized they do not play the articulation exactly the same way these are very small differences but this is how it sound « real » the technology used (modeling) recreate the sound for each note
That is where divisimate make the different
When you play a chord each note is sent to a different instrument with a % of delay slightly different velocity therefore the modélisation is also different ans the sound is different for each note and this is how to create realistic ensembles
Try a sample bank with Divisimate and with Swam’s and you will ear the difference

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

Thanks Fred, I will have a closer look at this product later.

Nitpicking - For my taste the initial attack and swell on both versions still sounded artificial in the same way, not smooth - and both as if a single performer was creating that sound.  To be fair the expression pedal or breath controller one was someone just rushing off a demo for YouTube in a demonstration.
Getting an exciting immediate attack and /or realistic believable swell sound and also not sounding like a single instrument performance is a hard one to pull off.

The variation in human breath control still,  well - err -humanizes music!
So much more potential than an expression pedal - to be fair they usually start at around 10 times the price though with expression pedals starting at £12 here!

Breath control is so underrated in synthetic music making.

NuRad with strings and brass sound:
https://youtu.be/cpo4wwGIRJ8?feature=shared

Last edited by Key Fumbler (29-08-2023 15:28)

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

Key Fumbler wrote:

Thanks Fred, I will have a closer look at this product later.

Nitpicking - For my taste the initial attack and swell on both versions still sounded artificial in the same way, not smooth - and both as if a single performer was creating that sound.  To be fair the expression pedal or breath controller one was someone just rushing off a demo for YouTube in a demonstration.
Getting an exciting immediate attack and /or realistic believable swell sound and also not sounding like a single instrument performance is a hard one to pull off.

The variation in human breath control still,  well - err -humanizes music!
So much more potential than an expression pedal - to be fair they usually start at around 10 times the price though with expression pedals starting at £12 here!

Breath control is so underrated in synthetic music making.

I don't think he is playing Swam's on this demo

NuRad with strings and brass sound:
https://youtu.be/cpo4wwGIRJ8?feature=shared


I don't think he is playing Swam instruments on this demo this was done to illustrate the NuRAD polyphonic capabilities
But I do agree that Wind Controllers are better for playing wind instruments, otherwise you need at least 3 pedals and 2 hands for a single note to do the same with a keyboard
Expression Pedal (for Breath Control = Volume & Timbre)
Pedal or polyphonic Aftertouch for Vibrato (but even so you can only control the depth of the vibrato not when it start and the delay) this can be easily handled with the bite sensor on the NuRAD (or the Lever)
Pedal or Mod wheel on Keyboards for effects such as Flutter (for Flute) or Growl (for Sax) (which can be done with the Lip sensor on the NuRAD)
And something to trigger the falls (which can be done with a pinky key on the NuRAD)

And you still have one additional possible control with the Lever (looks like a joystick on the right thumb)
Some wind controllers have even more with elevation, roll, and compass control.

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

I wasn't suggesting SWAM on this. I think it's just samples.

Currently just on regular EWI with expression pedals which I'm still enjoying anyway. Tempted occasionally by NuRad. I'm not in that class to justify it though. Hopefully they won't have disappeared (or have gotten ridiculously expensive) by the time I feel worthy!

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

Already mentioned but this awesome orchestra plugin becoming free/donationware to me is the most remarkable development in affordable synthetic modelling:

https://www.synful.com/

You just need a DAW for this. The quality is still excellent. Combine this with Pianoteq and SWAM engine instruments for impressive results.

I hope this gets the funds for further development.
Even as someone who plays EWI some of the brass here sounds remarkably natural without even needing the breath controller or EWI.
Now I do prefer to use a breath controller or wind controller for individual instruments (enjoying the experience of playing)  but for just inputting from midi keyboard (and occasionally using expression pedal) this is special. It doesn't feel like triggering a cardboard cutout sound like so many sampled instruments.

As it's now free maybe I'm already preaching to the converted?

I think everyone that's got Pianoteq and SWAM instruments should have this.

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

I have been trying Synful for more than 2 weeks now, and it is probably usable with keyboards for ensembles, but I would not recommend using it with wind controller for individual instruments the response is very poor, the articulations are not produced as they should the result is not good at all compare to SWAMs (I just hope Audio Modeling will make ensembles (String sections, Brass Sections ....) this is what they are missing even if you can build your own by layers.
I was very impressed by the demos of Synful, but when trying this is another story there is very little dynamics the presets sound heavily compressed ? Could be my settings, but I have tried many different settings 
(e.g. Alto Sax 1; Tenor Sax 2; Alto Sax 3, Tenor Sax 4 & Baritone Sax 5 to make a sax Big Band Section with Alto Sax 2 different from Alto Sax 1 (timbre response) same as for Tenor Sax 2 & 4 using different panning for each
All other set will work fine 2 clarinets + Sax; 2 flutes + Sax ... you can build your own with individual instances in layers)

Please apologize for my English
Fred

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

Saxfred56 wrote:

I have been trying Synful for more than 2 weeks now, and it is probably usable with keyboards for ensembles, but I would not recommend using it with wind controller for individual instruments the response is very poor, the articulations are not produced as they should the result is not good at all compare to SWAMs (I just hope Audio Modeling will make ensembles (String sections, Brass Sections ....) this is what they are missing even if you can build your own by layers.
I was very impressed by the demos of Synful, but when trying this is another story there is very little dynamics the presets sound heavily compressed ? Could be my settings, but I have tried many different settings 
(e.g. Alto Sax 1; Tenor Sax 2; Alto Sax 3, Tenor Sax 4 & Baritone Sax 5 to make a sax Big Band Section with Alto Sax 2 different from Alto Sax 1 (timbre response) same as for Tenor Sax 2 & 4 using different panning for each
All other set will work fine 2 clarinets + Sax; 2 flutes + Sax ... you can build your own with individual instances in layers)

Please apologize for my English
Fred

Strange, it can sound highly dynamic!

Horses for courses. I suggest SWAM is a different animal to Synful. They can complement each other. Also some tonal contrast between these different virtual versions of instruments can add a naturalistic variety to the tonality.
For composing with woodwinds and mass strings Synful is also excellent. Playing with keyboards with some pedal expression dynamics are fine. I do have other instruments I prefer for using with EWI.

For your swinging big band experience you would look elsewhere for saxophones etc. Also Synful clarinet sound is weak, so it would need to be used sparingly to hide shortcomings.

I'm not suggesting Synful can replace these physical modelled cousins but work in harmony. It's always been overlooked, it really shouldn't be now.

Re: SWAM Audio Modeling vs MODARTT Audio Modelling.

https://youtu.be/uNAgTrKo1Y8?si=EGkcpEApmk8cSabP

I use Swam Violin here, it is very musical.
(Other instruments aren't Swam's, only the violin is Swam.)