Topic: Binaural headphones experience

Hi all,

I generally play pianotech using sennheiser HD 598s, but occasionally through my kawai CA 67 on board speakers.

I recently read a post about waves nx abbey roads studio and now this may improve headphone quality/ experience. I think this is a plugin, although this doesn't really mean much to me unfortunately! I use pianotech as a standalone with no other programs so I'm not sure what this is or how it works?!

Are there any calibration type tools or similar programs that anyone could recommend me looking into to improve my headphone experience?

Thanks..

Re: Binaural headphones experience

James wrote:

Hi all,

I generally play pianotech using sennheiser HD 598s, but occasionally through my kawai CA 67 on board speakers.

I recently read a post about waves nx abbey roads studio and now this may improve headphone quality/ experience. I think this is a plugin, although this doesn't really mean much to me unfortunately! I use pianotech as a standalone with no other programs so I'm not sure what this is or how it works?!

Are there any calibration type tools or similar programs that anyone could recommend me looking into to improve my headphone experience?

Thanks..

Have you tried the built-in binaural mode? I've adjusted it a bit, but like the result.
I have the NX plugin, but for other reasons. It's nice when you have a head tracker, or a webcam in front of you. But I doubt that it will be easy to create a setup for Pianoteq as a stand alone solution.
Apart from that: WAVES doesn't sell their plugins anymore. You'd have to rent them...

Last edited by MartinGr (25-04-2023 20:43)

Re: Binaural headphones experience

MartinGr wrote:
James wrote:

Hi all,

I generally play pianotech using sennheiser HD 598s, but occasionally through my kawai CA 67 on board speakers.

I recently read a post about waves nx abbey roads studio and now this may improve headphone quality/ experience. I think this is a plugin, although this doesn't really mean much to me unfortunately! I use pianotech as a standalone with no other programs so I'm not sure what this is or how it works?!

Are there any calibration type tools or similar programs that anyone could recommend me looking into to improve my headphone experience?

Thanks..

Have you tried the built-in binaural mode? I've adjusted it a bit, but like the result.
I have the NX plugin, but for other reasons. It's nice when you have a head tracker, or a webcam in front of you. But I doubt that it will be easy to create a setup for Pianoteq as a stand alone solution.
Apart from that: WAVES doesn't sell their plugins anymore. You'd have to rent them...

Thanks for that. Could you tell me what you changed on the onboard binaural mode? It states you can change head size but I can't work out how?

Re: Binaural headphones experience

James wrote:

Thanks for that. Could you tell me what you changed on the onboard binaural mode? It states you can change head size but I can't work out how?

I didn't mean on-board, but the binaural mode in Pianoteq. You can switch from Stereophonic to this.
I'm not in front of it the moment, but there was a lot to adjust.

Re: Binaural headphones experience

James wrote:

Could you tell me what you changed on the onboard binaural mode? It states you can change head size but I can't work out how?

If you click on the straight arrow (not the curved one), you can move your mouse forward/back or in any direction, and you will see the ring around the headphones shrink and grow in size.

There's no correct size - but stop where you like the sound best and gives you the most sense of the space feeling comfortable. Moving back and forth a while, you'll get a good idea of a sweet spot and for sure, there's no correct size for this.


Optional extra food for thought...

The one thing I'd want to add, is if you output recordings using binaural mode, remember you may not satisfy as many listeners with different head sizes If you felt the sound was too claustrophobic when you made the head size smallest, or if is sounded too strange when the largest size was used, imagine other listeners on their headphones hearing the sound of 'your selected head size' but with their own head size in reality.. your binaural mode audio which might sound perfect, for you, may sound not so perfect for many others. Also, this mode may not sound the best on speakers. I add this because, it's been brought up various times - and I think it's often a little misunderstood, or not considered. Of course, anyone can output any audio mode they like, and not worry... but if you would like to consider this, hopefully this can help if trying to output audio which more listeners might hear as sounding normal.


MartinGr wrote:

You'd have to rent them

There was indeed enough backlash to cause a rethink at Waves, along with the expected apology, so individual plugins are still sold - but yes, it was outrageous, that only a lease plan might have been available (I'm OK with it - but very not OK about making that the only option for users who may want only a few plugins.) I'm sure plenty of plugin buyers are choosing to buy elsewhere after that, and Waves will have only a greedy decision maker to hold responsible for that. I feel for the developers who do fabulous work, none of that is their fault - so personally, I'm not boycotting, esp. since I think they really did FAaFO pretty hard.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Binaural headphones experience

Many thanks for all your help. I'll take a look at altering head size today and what that does. I only use for live playing to myself so that's fine.

I approached soundworks also but they started their system is really for post edit listening not live piano and may cause latency issues, etc. They did state a dedicated asio driver might be an improvement on asio4all I use, not sure what thoughts are on this.

Thanks all anyway. Much appreciated.

Re: Binaural headphones experience

Those solutions are for mixing and mastering in order to simulate a studio environment (I did 2 albums like that, they really help in figuring out how something might sound out of speakers so you can adjust stereo properly).

They would add some latency which I’m not sure you want while playing. 539 samples of latency at 44KHz per Waves’ site. That’s like 12ms, which isn’t desirable at all.

Re: Binaural headphones experience

For sure latency may be an issue for many. For piano though, I rather need a bit more instead of being near zero.

On current machine (overall latency loop), when I see up to 10 ms in Pianoteq, that's my sweet spot for feeling like a real piano when playing. Close to zero latency in Pianoteq, to me feels like my old synths or something too 'immediate' and a little latency feels more realistic.

If I need to get closer to zero (esp. to compensate for any latency introduced by plugins esp.) to remove all but a tiny fraction, I can lower buffer way down (64 or 32 to scrounge another fraction more time back) - but not everyone's audio may allow that.

The NX plugin for spatial mixing, is pretty good, esp. when you get your head circumference and ear to ear measure good. My fav is the Abbey Road Studio 3 NX - but I do also like the others too. I don't normally use them for playing (speakers is my pref), but definitely, if I have to or need to use headphones, it's great to put on those plugins in a DAW to hear a kind of "how this sounds in a space via 2 good speakers" (they mostly have 3 sizes like in a studio to use also).

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Binaural headphones experience

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9602 which works with and without head tracking, does not include any latency and is free.

I'm currently without my keyboard so it's been a while since I tried but I remember (incorrectly?) that it worked well.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(