If you own any Waves plugins, you will have received an email saying that the only way to get any more is by subscription. You get to keep the plugins you have purchased, but you will not be able to update them once your update plan expires. What a crummy deal!
i dont think its a problem for vast majority of plugins as long as they work with new os / daw going forward. I've been out of maintenance for a while with my waves stuff.
as long as revenue works out for them, subscription should be an easier model for their active/dedicated users. For the casual user who just wants to pick up a cheap plugin on sale to add to their collection - not as good.
i had this kind of thing happen with another application i bought. no more updates, gotta subscribe to service for future improvements. I didn't. Just use old.
Ha ha, run for the hills. Anything but Waves.
The nerve of it
C'est la vie Waves, you've dumped on your customers, now your dumped.
Ignore the Waves, plenty more fish in the sea.
Exactly. I've never noticed any differences in Waves plugins when I've updated them anyway!
i dont think its a problem for vast majority of plugins as long as they work with new os / daw going forward. I've been out of maintenance for a while with my waves stuff.
Yeah, I think the main issue is macOS updates have broken Waves plugins in the past. Probably not as big of an issue for now on other platforms (for existing users, anyway). I just can't ever see putting a plugin I don't own into a project file. Crazy.
Thank you dazric - I did see that.. crummy is a good description.
Choice to own, removed, is the tantamount issue I feel.
My pref is subscription - but the choice is not offered, just ultimatum. Very disappointed honestly, considering my friends with not enough of the plugins to make a sub worth their while/outlay. And I have recommended some Waves plugins to people over the years, and recently to some who may only want a few.. I truly feel bad for that now. Coming from such an old and generally stable company too.. just couldn't see "no choice" as a possibility.
Logically, to me the issue is lack of the choice to sub. Such a mandate declared, is un-earned.
Fighting for choice is IMHO the winning ticket (contacting Waves internal special support.. a link should be on their forum about this issue.. iirc a rep posted it - I'll be doing that later today).
Not divisive argument over subs though, which I see possible too.. that horse bolted long ago, probably is Hades' 4th horse or something by now, poor poor darling thing.
Can understand people ditching the Waves ecosystem - but even though I currently own all but a few of their plugins, I'll happily use them until they stop - and probably sub yearly at a later time. For those like me, it will likely be cheaper going forward to keep them all updated when it becomes meaningful to me to pull that trigger. *and fortuitous to gain new plugins with no extra charge too. I want developers to earn a living and probably pay more than I need to often.. but like to know that they do still do good work - but of course, management may be freaking out about interest rates (whatever credit line they normally work with etc.. could have forced some "fast tracking" and of course, some power plays internally always risk some bold new ideas that go too far.. I hate it - but it's a typical corporate issue all too often punishing end-users.)
Funny to think I still use some of the plugins there from their beginnings - but for sure, my old machines died long ago with all kinds of software I 'owned' along with them. Over a long timeline, I feel it's not a question of "Do I own this software?" but rather, "What can I do with this software?" regardless of its Schroedinger state in terms of my ownership of it at any given time... use it.. but who cares if it's leased, rented or owned? That is now an argument probably off riding that old horse of Hades somewhere in the theoretical fabric of time and space.. long lost.
My heart goes out to those who cannot benefit from the abrupt change - and hopefully a respectful campaign to return singular licence holders their old deal may occur beyond public postings.. but certainly, let's not insinuate that subscriptions are the prob.. choice is the winnable thing here IMHO.
I say that - and could say more based on being a lover of different software and OS ecosystems etc.. I love Linux, FOSS (repo depositories are not dissimilar in terms of convenience when supplying the tools to the users.. but 'for money' does come with extra "angst") and it's possible to see value in all directions, plenty of other VST makers etc. - nothing ideological about it necessarily. Some Waves plugins I cannot just replace exactly.. I can certainly live without but they do indeed supply me some of the most valuable plugins in my stupidly large old collection from decades of this digital domain (over 1300 in an audit a few weeks ago when the question arose on this forum.. how many do I maintain.. it's incredibly easier and frictionless in bulk, within a 'central' depository/ecosystem/however it's described, compared to hunting and pecking irregular updates per individual plugins.. get beyond maybe 50 and may begin to notice it's a not just a time-sink but a hassle in more ways than one.
My feeling is that in the end, it is best to just use whatever tools inspire the outcomes - and a spartan toolkit can do wonders anyhow.. maybe old audio geeks are in overkill mode anyhoo - BUT in this case, a quantifiable value has been nullified and needs to be rectified, presumably easier to do with subscribers onboard for the fight - and I hope it will turn out OK with enough pressure for Waves to do a backflip.
I want other subscribers to be onside in that fight of course, I'm not going to muddy that up by making that 'market' sour by telling them (and myself) we're idiots for buying into a trap.. it's just not a trap IF enough plugins are in the offering.. sub doesn't make sense for those with 1 or 2.. I want their deal back, Waves! ASAP! I like to know that my friends and colleagues are happy! This kind of sucks, as they say in the classics these days.
Yes, Qexl, I can understand you might feel a bit awkward about having recommended Waves - but, hey, it's not your fault! The abrupt 'all or nothing, take it or leave it' nature of the deal is definitely the issue here. It's a stab in the back for small producers and hobbyists at a time when they need more support than ever. Personally, I'm not too bothered. The Waves plugins that I do have may be 'nice to have', but I don't consider them 'essential'. I'll continue to use them for as long as they still work, after that, well... hey-ho and c'est la vie, etc.!
Since this decision has been about as welcome as a fart in a space suit Waves have already reversed this decision:
Dear Waves community,
My name is Meir Shashoua, and I’m the CTO and Co-Founder of Waves Audio.
Over the past few days, many of you have expressed concerns about our decision to discontinue perpetual plugin licenses and our move to an exclusive plugin subscription model. I would like to start by apologizing for the frustration we have caused many of you, our loyal customers. We understand that our move was sudden and disruptive, and did not sufficiently take into consideration your needs, wishes, and preferences. We are genuinely sorry for the distress it has caused.
After respectfully listening to your concerns, I want to share with you that we are bringing back the perpetual plugin license model, side-by-side with the new subscriptions. You will again be able to get plugins as perpetual licenses, just as before.
In addition, those of you who already own perpetual licenses will once again be able to update your plugins and receive a second license via the Waves Update Plan—again, just as before. This option, too, will be available alongside and independently of the subscription program.
We are currently putting all our efforts into making perpetual licenses available to you again, as quickly as possible. In the meantime, you can keep up-to-date on this news page, where we will post the latest updates on perpetual license availability.
I would like you to know that we are committed to you, our users. We listened to your feedback, and we will continue to listen to you. Waves is a company filled with users and creators, just like you, and we are all as passionate about the products as you are. With this in mind, we will strive to find the way to make things right by you, and hopefully regain your trust.
Thank you for your feedback and continued support—I wish you all the best,
Significant damage probably already done.
I wonder if Liz Truss had been acting in an advisory position?
I wonder if Liz Truss had been acting in an advisory position?
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised...
Feet to flame.
Nice to see Meir respectfully listened to the howls, respectful and otherwise, thanks for posting that response Keys!
Often bad 'moves' are tossed around, but usually founders of good old companies are not so easily 'sold' on strangling kittens.
Mea Culpa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nH0-Ex4VnQ
... What he said, he said: "I'm sorry.. I committed a sin.. I made a mistake. I asked the spirits on whether they'll give me forgiveness.. and please forgive me." He said "I committed it" and he said "It's a Mea Culpa!". I mean, it was a very bad move.. He did a bad thing.. "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I made.. I committed a sin and I made a mistake and I'm never gonna do it again, I never did it before and I'm never gonna do it again." ...
Glad you enjoy Eno - such an inspiring human - I'm still chuffed that he's a Pianoteq customer.
Here's how I imagine many Waves plugin owners might be feeling today after winning back perpetual licenses - with well earned respect and congrats to all who respectfully argued the case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOXYB2cd8
I used Cubase for 20 years up to 2 years ago and now use reaper. Reaper has javascript plugins which replace the need for most paid plugins. I use a handful of VST's still but its getting less and less. My latest song only has 1 VST and 1 VST instrument. Paid plugins are dying. Even Guitar and bass SIMS and drumkits are free VST's these days.
Just my 2 cents but WAVES is not needed.