Topic by KoIQ333

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Topic: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

Dear Pianoteq community,

I grew up playing an acoustic piano, but live in an apartment now and recently purchased a Kawai NV10, mainly for the action, which I love. However, after playing it for a while, I find the sound and speaker quality lacking. After browsing the internet a bit, I am considering getting pianoteq with supplementary speakers to improve the overall playing experience. However, I am quite new to digital pianos and have no idea how to do this. Would I have to get a separate computer to run Pianoteq along with a separate amplifier for the speakers? What about a soundcard? Would a laptop or ipad work? How do I use the NV10 as just a keyboard controller? Is it as simple as just connecting it to a computer with a usb cable? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Lawrence

Reply by LTECpiano

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

KoIQ333 wrote:

Dear Pianoteq community,

I grew up playing an acoustic piano, but live in an apartment now and recently purchased a Kawai NV10, mainly for the action, which I love. However, after playing it for a while, I find the sound and speaker quality lacking. After browsing the internet a bit, I am considering getting pianoteq with supplementary speakers to improve the overall playing experience. However, I am quite new to digital pianos and have no idea how to do this. Would I have to get a separate computer to run Pianoteq along with a separate amplifier for the speakers? What about a soundcard? Would a laptop or ipad work? How do I use the NV10 as just a keyboard controller? Is it as simple as just connecting it to a computer with a usb cable? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Lawrence

Hi KolQ333 ... Sounds like you are on your way to being piano enlightened. 

Before you get into the external amplifier and speaker jungle, I would suggest a stereo headphone to totally learn how your virtual piano of choice can sound at its optimum.  A Beyerdynamic model DT-880.  About $90 on Amazon.  There is none better suited for Pianoteq at any price. You will eventually be able to use them with the external speakers turned on at the same time.  98% of folks out there have no clue why this works so well ... I noted that you are in an apartment. An external amplifier and speaker can come later.

Connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the USB input to your computer.

Plug your headphones into the headphone output of your computer.  You can get into more elaborate audio input/output stuff later.

Next, download a [free] trial version of Pianoteq ... bring the application up ...  test to see if it is working by cursor/mousing the keyboard image you will see on the Pianoteq graphics user interface (GUI).

To use your nice Kawai NV10 strictly as a controller, consult it's manual to set the midi function to LOCAL OFF.  No internal sounds will come from the Kawai if you do this.  Now, if you play your NV10 keyboard  you should begin to play the selected Pianoteq preset.

Congratulations on your nice digital piano choice. If you try out Pianoteq with it you definitely are about to be musically enlightened.

Cheers,

Lanny

Last edited by LTECpiano (26-01-2023 12:32)

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

You can start downloading the demo version of pianoteq 8.
Pianoteq played through Kawai large DP model tends to sound very good and natural. All videos of pianoteq played by Kawai NV10 and similars sounded more natural and full.

Don't forget to try adjust the pianoteq velocity curves graphic, since the right curse is need to get a more natural sound.

Any problem you can come back to this topic and get more support.

Lanny gave you nice tips.

Last edited by Beto-Music (26-01-2023 21:33)

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

LTECpiano wrote:
KoIQ333 wrote:

Dear Pianoteq community,

I grew up playing an acoustic piano, but live in an apartment now and recently purchased a Kawai NV10, mainly for the action, which I love. However, after playing it for a while, I find the sound and speaker quality lacking. After browsing the internet a bit, I am considering getting pianoteq with supplementary speakers to improve the overall playing experience. However, I am quite new to digital pianos and have no idea how to do this. Would I have to get a separate computer to run Pianoteq along with a separate amplifier for the speakers? What about a soundcard? Would a laptop or ipad work? How do I use the NV10 as just a keyboard controller? Is it as simple as just connecting it to a computer with a usb cable? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Lawrence

Hi KolQ333 ... Sounds like you are on your way to being piano enlightened. 

Before you get into the external amplifier and speaker jungle, I would suggest a stereo headphone to totally learn how your virtual piano of choice can sound at its optimum.  A Beyerdynamic model DT-880.  About $90 on Amazon.  There is none better suited for Pianoteq at any price. You will eventually be able to use them with the external speakers turned on at the same time.  98% of folks out there have no clue why this works so well ... I noted that you are in an apartment. An external amplifier and speaker can come later.

Connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the USB input to your computer.

Plug your headphones into the headphone output of your computer.  You can get into more elaborate audio input/output stuff later.

Next, download a [free] trial version of Pianoteq ... bring the application up ...  test to see if it is working by cursor/mousing the keyboard image you will see on the Pianoteq graphics user interface (GUI).

To use your nice Kawai NV10 strictly as a controller, consult it's manual to set the midi function to LOCAL OFF.  No internal sounds will come from the Kawai if you do this.  Now, if you play your NV10 keyboard  you should begin to play the selected Pianoteq preset.

Congratulations on your nice digital piano choice. If you try out Pianoteq with it you definitely are about to be musically enlightened.

Cheers,

Lanny

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris

Reply by miiindbullets

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

sigasa wrote:

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris

Open-backs generally have a larger sound stage, but the sound leaks in from the room to your ears (and out from your headphones to the room) more than with closed-back headphones, so it'll be dependent upon your environment.

If you have a relatively quiet room, you'll probably prefer open-backs, as you can hear more detail in the stereo image. If you need to contain the sound inside the headphones and/or would prefer to isolate as much outside noise as possible, you'll probably prefer closed-backs.

I can't comment on the 880's specifically, but I have some open-back Beyerdynamics (DT 900 Pro X) and love them! I am sure the 880s are wonderful as well. The leakage isn't an issue for me, it still muffles certain sounds pretty well (e.g. my computer fan), but I can still hear my kids quietly trying to get my attention if I'm practicing, so it's a good fit for me.

YouTube

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Reply by LTECpiano

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

sigasa wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:
KoIQ333 wrote:

Dear Pianoteq community,

I grew up playing an acoustic piano, but live in an apartment now and recently purchased a Kawai NV10, mainly for the action, which I love. However, after playing it for a while, I find the sound and speaker quality lacking. After browsing the internet a bit, I am considering getting pianoteq with supplementary speakers to improve the overall playing experience. However, I am quite new to digital pianos and have no idea how to do this. Would I have to get a separate computer to run Pianoteq along with a separate amplifier for the speakers? What about a soundcard? Would a laptop or ipad work? How do I use the NV10 as just a keyboard controller? Is it as simple as just connecting it to a computer with a usb cable? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Lawrence

Hi KolQ333 ... Sounds like you are on your way to being piano enlightened. 

Before you get into the external amplifier and speaker jungle, I would suggest a stereo headphone to totally learn how your virtual piano of choice can sound at its optimum.  A Beyerdynamic model DT-880.  About $90 on Amazon.  There is none better suited for Pianoteq at any price. You will eventually be able to use them with the external speakers turned on at the same time.  98% of folks out there have no clue why this works so well ... I noted that you are in an apartment. An external amplifier and speaker can come later.

Connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the USB input to your computer.

Plug your headphones into the headphone output of your computer.  You can get into more elaborate audio input/output stuff later.

Next, download a [free] trial version of Pianoteq ... bring the application up ...  test to see if it is working by cursor/mousing the keyboard image you will see on the Pianoteq graphics user interface (GUI).

To use your nice Kawai NV10 strictly as a controller, consult it's manual to set the midi function to LOCAL OFF.  No internal sounds will come from the Kawai if you do this.  Now, if you play your NV10 keyboard  you should begin to play the selected Pianoteq preset.

Congratulations on your nice digital piano choice. If you try out Pianoteq with it you definitely are about to be musically enlightened.

Cheers,

Lanny

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris


OPEN without a doubt.  First of all the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones are going to sound fantastic just by themselves.  Closed back headphones of any brand have a tendency to emphasize low frequencies.  A simple test ... hold your hands over your ears and talk ... highs are gone/lows are emphasized. You can always EQ in more bass if you want when using headphones.

Low frequencies either acoustic or from speakers are more or less omnidirectional. Those low frequencies floating around the room just float right into open side headphones.   The headphones are already sounding great for both low and high frequencies. But if external speakers are on too the overall effect will improve the sensation  of presence. 

My wife will come into the room while I am playing my piano and growl, "why do you have the speakers on while you have the headphones on?"

AND I can hear hear her say that because the headphones are open on the sides.  I can hear the door bell or the phone ring.

The German Beyerdynamic DT880 open side headphones are fabulous.

Lanny

LTECpiano's Website

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

LTECpiano wrote:
sigasa wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:

Hi KolQ333 ... Sounds like you are on your way to being piano enlightened. 

Before you get into the external amplifier and speaker jungle, I would suggest a stereo headphone to totally learn how your virtual piano of choice can sound at its optimum.  A Beyerdynamic model DT-880.  About $90 on Amazon.  There is none better suited for Pianoteq at any price. You will eventually be able to use them with the external speakers turned on at the same time.  98% of folks out there have no clue why this works so well ... I noted that you are in an apartment. An external amplifier and speaker can come later.

Connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the USB input to your computer.

Plug your headphones into the headphone output of your computer.  You can get into more elaborate audio input/output stuff later.

Next, download a [free] trial version of Pianoteq ... bring the application up ...  test to see if it is working by cursor/mousing the keyboard image you will see on the Pianoteq graphics user interface (GUI).

To use your nice Kawai NV10 strictly as a controller, consult it's manual to set the midi function to LOCAL OFF.  No internal sounds will come from the Kawai if you do this.  Now, if you play your NV10 keyboard  you should begin to play the selected Pianoteq preset.

Congratulations on your nice digital piano choice. If you try out Pianoteq with it you definitely are about to be musically enlightened.

Cheers,

Lanny

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris


OPEN without a doubt.  First of all the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones are going to sound fantastic just by themselves.  Closed back headphones of any brand have a tendency to emphasize low frequencies.  A simple test ... hold your hands over your ears and talk ... highs are gone/lows are emphasized. You can always EQ in more bass if you want when using headphones.

Low frequencies either acoustic or from speakers are more or less omnidirectional. Those low frequencies floating around the room just float right into open side headphones.   The headphones are already sounding great for both low and high frequencies. But if external speakers are on too the overall effect will improve the sensation  of presence. 

My wife will come into the room while I am playing my piano and growl, "why do you have the speakers on while you have the headphones on?"

AND I can hear hear her say that because the headphones are open on the sides.  I can hear the door bell or the phone ring.

The German Beyerdynamic DT880 open side headphones are fabulous.

Lanny

Thank you Lanny and Mindbullets, very helpful,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Reply by Vepece

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

miiindbullets wrote:
sigasa wrote:

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris

Open-backs generally have a larger sound stage, but the sound leaks in from the room to your ears (and out from your headphones to the room) more than with closed-back headphones, so it'll be dependent upon your environment.

If you have a relatively quiet room, you'll probably prefer open-backs, as you can hear more detail in the stereo image. If you need to contain the sound inside the headphones and/or would prefer to isolate as much outside noise as possible, you'll probably prefer closed-backs.

I can't comment on the 880's specifically, but I have some open-back Beyerdynamics (DT 900 Pro X) and love them! I am sure the 880s are wonderful as well. The leakage isn't an issue for me, it still muffles certain sounds pretty well (e.g. my computer fan), but I can still hear my kids quietly trying to get my attention if I'm practicing, so it's a good fit for me.

I owned some DT-880 Pro a few years ago and after one side broke and Beyerdynamic offered to repair them for 70€ I tossed them.
Since then I own the Apple AirPod Max for every day usage, and was quite happy (against many haters claiming its not good, it got an excellent neutral sound and the best Noise Reduction on the market).
In December I went to a local music store (JustMusic in Germany) and they offer to test all kind of headphones by many brands - smth. like 60-70 Headphones, all running on some Bluetooth connector so you can connect your Source and swap seemless between them as they all run simultaneously (which is kind of embarrassing when the entire floor can hear your music no matter how low you adjust the volume )

So I had the opportunity to compare the Beyerdynamic DT 770, Pro, 880, Pro, 990, 1990, T1, T5 and Amiron against each other, and compared them to my Apple AirPod Max, and to a few specific other brands headphones I considered interesting - so mostly really expensive ones in the 500+ or 1000€+ range.

Long Story short: The DT 880 Pro (! Pro is important, 250Ohm Variant) is the BEST if you look for clean, neutral sound - and was better than the more expensive Beyerdynamics and it was better! than the DT 880 (not Pro Variant).
I guess I favor the half-open headphones,
but its literary no joke that this was the best. The only comparable was my AirPod Max, not joking! Sure I am used to my personal headphones, but hearing exp. the expensive ones was quite frustrating as they swallowed alot of details and were more bassy (obv. these are closed ones, but they still cut of mids and highs so much that typical "noise" in the songs I am used to where not be possible to make out, like breathing of the artists or other fine details that havent been properly mastered)
I would claim both (DT880 Pro, AirPod Max) are great options, and far better than any other that I was listening to on that day.

My source was connected by Bluetooth 5 from my Samsung S10+ Phone, and I played offline saved FLACs. I dont know what kind of BT-Protocol was used, and I dont know what kind of BT receiver/multiplier they use to connect all these headphones, but I would not assume that the routing of the cables have been a major issue.

Ps.: I use the AirPods Max with cable connection, and only rarely by BT. Just saying.


Greets

Last edited by Vepece (30-01-2023 15:51)
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Reply by shiihs

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

KoIQ333 wrote:

Dear Pianoteq community,

I grew up playing an acoustic piano, but live in an apartment now and recently purchased a Kawai NV10, mainly for the action, which I love. However, after playing it for a while, I find the sound and speaker quality lacking. After browsing the internet a bit, I am considering getting pianoteq with supplementary speakers to improve the overall playing experience. However, I am quite new to digital pianos and have no idea how to do this. Would I have to get a separate computer to run Pianoteq along with a separate amplifier for the speakers? What about a soundcard? Would a laptop or ipad work? How do I use the NV10 as just a keyboard controller? Is it as simple as just connecting it to a computer with a usb cable? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Lawrence

You can run pianoteq on a laptop or on a compact arm device like an odroid-n2+/raspberry pi 4. A pianoteq ipad app has been announced, but as far as I know it doesn't exist yet. Then connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the laptop so the NV10 can send midi information to pianoteq, and then either connect headphones to the laptop or run a cable from your laptop's line out to the NV10 's line in to use the NV10 amplifier and speakers, or alternatively from the line out to an external amplifier + speakers. From what I read, headphones tend to give a more satisfying piano sound, but your mileage may vary. If your laptop's built-in audio card is bad quality you can also get an external sound card (usually USB based). A common problem with laptops and USB midi is that of ground loop noise - if you hear ghastly noises coming from the speakers which disappear if you run the laptop on battery instead of on AC power, you have ground loop noise. But let's leave that explanation for another time You may notice an annoying delay between pressing the piano key and pianoteq reacting, in which case you will need to tweak some settings (things like decreasing audio buffer size and perhaps upgrading to a better audio driver, also depending on which operating system you use). You can try with the demo version of pianoteq first, if unsure about what to expect.

KAWAI NV10 / Sequential Prophet Rev2
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Reply by BKBroiler

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

LTECpiano wrote:
sigasa wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:

Hi KolQ333 ... Sounds like you are on your way to being piano enlightened. 

Before you get into the external amplifier and speaker jungle, I would suggest a stereo headphone to totally learn how your virtual piano of choice can sound at its optimum.  A Beyerdynamic model DT-880.  About $90 on Amazon.  There is none better suited for Pianoteq at any price. You will eventually be able to use them with the external speakers turned on at the same time.  98% of folks out there have no clue why this works so well ... I noted that you are in an apartment. An external amplifier and speaker can come later.

Connect a USB cable from the NV10 to the USB input to your computer.

Plug your headphones into the headphone output of your computer.  You can get into more elaborate audio input/output stuff later.

Next, download a [free] trial version of Pianoteq ... bring the application up ...  test to see if it is working by cursor/mousing the keyboard image you will see on the Pianoteq graphics user interface (GUI).

To use your nice Kawai NV10 strictly as a controller, consult it's manual to set the midi function to LOCAL OFF.  No internal sounds will come from the Kawai if you do this.  Now, if you play your NV10 keyboard  you should begin to play the selected Pianoteq preset.

Congratulations on your nice digital piano choice. If you try out Pianoteq with it you definitely are about to be musically enlightened.

Cheers,

Lanny

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris


OPEN without a doubt.  First of all the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones are going to sound fantastic just by themselves.  Closed back headphones of any brand have a tendency to emphasize low frequencies.  A simple test ... hold your hands over your ears and talk ... highs are gone/lows are emphasized. You can always EQ in more bass if you want when using headphones.

Low frequencies either acoustic or from speakers are more or less omnidirectional. Those low frequencies floating around the room just float right into open side headphones.   The headphones are already sounding great for both low and high frequencies. But if external speakers are on too the overall effect will improve the sensation  of presence. 

My wife will come into the room while I am playing my piano and growl, "why do you have the speakers on while you have the headphones on?"

AND I can hear hear her say that because the headphones are open on the sides.  I can hear the door bell or the phone ring.

The German Beyerdynamic DT880 open side headphones are fabulous.

Lanny

Open will certainly sound better when there is no ambient noise or sound about, but closed-back headphones provide you with a) isolation from others and random sounds, so you can focus on your performance and not get distracted, and b) not bother others with your piano practicing, which also has the side benefit of increasing your own expressiveness (at least it does to me), for the same reason. Because you know you aren't bothering anyone. It's like living in an apartment and blasting music, is it as enjoyable as doing the same thing in a cabin out in the woods somewhere, where there's no chance of neighbours complaining?

Hearing the door bell is not something I worry about often, but on days where I am expecting a package or a phone call, I keep the phone on vibrate nearby, and you can always have one pair of open-back headphones and one closed-back. Anyway, to each their own. Sound quality and transparency is great but if you have others around, all that noise gets mixed in with your playing and that's not "high fidelity" dedicated listening / playing anymore, is it.

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Newbie - Help Required - Kawai NV10 + Pianoteq

BKBroiler wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:
sigasa wrote:

Hi Lanny,

Do you recommend the open or closed back model of the Beyserdynamic DT 880 headphones please?

Warmest regards,

Chris


OPEN without a doubt.  First of all the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones are going to sound fantastic just by themselves.  Closed back headphones of any brand have a tendency to emphasize low frequencies.  A simple test ... hold your hands over your ears and talk ... highs are gone/lows are emphasized. You can always EQ in more bass if you want when using headphones.

Low frequencies either acoustic or from speakers are more or less omnidirectional. Those low frequencies floating around the room just float right into open side headphones.   The headphones are already sounding great for both low and high frequencies. But if external speakers are on too the overall effect will improve the sensation  of presence. 

My wife will come into the room while I am playing my piano and growl, "why do you have the speakers on while you have the headphones on?"

AND I can hear hear her say that because the headphones are open on the sides.  I can hear the door bell or the phone ring.

The German Beyerdynamic DT880 open side headphones are fabulous.

Lanny

Open will certainly sound better when there is no ambient noise or sound about, but closed-back headphones provide you with a) isolation from others and random sounds, so you can focus on your performance and not get distracted, and b) not bother others with your piano practicing, which also has the side benefit of increasing your own expressiveness (at least it does to me), for the same reason. Because you know you aren't bothering anyone. It's like living in an apartment and blasting music, is it as enjoyable as doing the same thing in a cabin out in the woods somewhere, where there's no chance of neighbours complaining?

Hearing the door bell is not something I worry about often, but on days where I am expecting a package or a phone call, I keep the phone on vibrate nearby, and you can always have one pair of open-back headphones and one closed-back. Anyway, to each their own. Sound quality and transparency is great but if you have others around, all that noise gets mixed in with your playing and that's not "high fidelity" dedicated listening / playing anymore, is it.

I've checked out the DT880's. It appears they are the best of both worlds - semi open!

Warmest regards,

Chris