Topic by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Topic: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Especially in this most recent Pianoteq 8 version, the K2 has been imposing and with an incredibly pleasant sound to my ear. The "K2 Warm" preset has been my favorite ever since. It's impossible not to be captivated by its "fat and dirty" sound and at the same time soft and with an incredibly balanced dynamics where the closed of the pianissimo and the strident of the fortissimo appear distinctly.
Congratulations to the Modartt team!

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Reply by dazric

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Thank you for bringing this preset to my attention - I couldn't quite make up my mind about the K2 in v7 but I think I can 'warm' to this one! For my taste, I like to reduce the Hammer Noise and Compression mix slightly, and maybe add a bit of extra reverb - but it's got great possibilities.

Reply by TheodorN

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

What I sometimes do, is copy all parameters (except instrument of course) from some piano model which I don't have, to a model I do have. It can produce some interesting results, and it did when I copied the parameters of the K2 Warm, which indeed sounds great, to the Hamburg Steinway D.

Reply by miiindbullets

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

TheodorN wrote:

What I sometimes do, is copy all parameters (except instrument of course) from some piano model which I don't have, to a model I do have. It can produce some interesting results, and it did when I copied the parameters of the K2 Warm, which indeed sounds great, to the Hamburg Steinway D.

That's a really cool idea!

And thanks for bringing this preset to my attention, also. It's not one I typically reach for, but I enjoyed practicing with it last night.

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Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

TheodorN wrote:

What I sometimes do, is copy all parameters (except instrument of course) from some piano model which I don't have, to a model I do have. It can produce some interesting results, and it did when I copied the parameters of the K2 Warm, which indeed sounds great, to the Hamburg Steinway D.

I'm interested in your idea! I will do it.

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Reply by TheodorN

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Thank you guys, glad you like my (or I should say Modartt's) idea. I suppose it may not work in all cases, the Modartt team probably adapts the presets to the models in each case. Though the presets with the same names, are very similar in a lot of the settings, for example microphone positions and models. What is great, is the huge versatility of Pianoteq, both the presets themselves, and how much they can be tweaked.

Last edited by TheodorN (21-01-2023 04:09)

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

K2 it's no a recreation of a real piano model, but an combination of many good characteristics of several models of different brands.

I remember when K2 was released many people found it perfect, while others found it too perfect. Modartt probably tried to get all good things from the best piano brands and add to a single virtual piano model.
Now with V8 engine making average piano tone more natural, K2 is being rediscovered.

If you find it too perfect, now you have the chance of increase the Condition Slider to get it more to personal taste.

Last edited by Beto-Music (21-01-2023 11:12)

Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Beto-Music wrote:

K2 it's no a recreation of a real piano model, but an combination of many good characteristics of several models of different brands.

I remember when K2 was released many people found it perfect, while others found it too perfect. Modartt probably tried to get all good things from the best piano brands and add to a single virtual piano model.
Now with V8 engine making average piano tone more natural, K2 is being rediscovered.

If you find it too perfect, now you have the chance of increase the Condition Slider to get it more to personal taste.

What you said is absolutely true!

Physical Modeling is a technology that really surprises. I don't think I'll ever go back to sample-based keyboards!

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

K2 it's no a recreation of a real piano model, but an combination of many good characteristics of several models of different brands.

I remember when K2 was released many people found it perfect, while others found it too perfect. Modartt probably tried to get all good things from the best piano brands and add to a single virtual piano model.
Now with V8 engine making average piano tone more natural, K2 is being rediscovered.

If you find it too perfect, now you have the chance of increase the Condition Slider to get it more to personal taste.

What you said is absolutely true!

Physical Modeling is a technology that really surprises. I don't think I'll ever go back to sample-based keyboards!

Yes, I've ditched samples for piano.   I see the new Rhodes Mk8 is now a sample instrument with modelling elements. 100 layer sampling.
I guess "only 14GB+" is an achievement with 100 layers per key. It is still gobbling up drive space unnecessarily, and will lack the flexibility of adjustment of full physical modelling. No doubt it's decent enough but I would rather adjust the sound in Pianoteq 8, before even considering the price!

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Downloaded the Rhodes V8 some days ago and it's more like 20 GB. To be fair I wasn't particularly impressed with its sound despite having some pretty interesting features still missing in pianoteq like amp and cab models. The interface is very retro style and somewhat difficult to edit. In desperate need for a 8.1 update. xD

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Chopin87 wrote:

Downloaded the Rhodes V8 some days ago and it's more like 20 GB. To be fair I wasn't particularly impressed with its sound despite having some pretty interesting features still missing in pianoteq like amp and cab models. The interface is very retro style and somewhat difficult to edit. In desperate need for a 8.1 update. xD

Oh right, perhaps the compressed download file was 14GB then?

I would've liked to see a Pianoteq version. Then again maybe it doesn't really sound substantially different enough to warrant a different physical model?

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Key Fumbler wrote:
Chopin87 wrote:

Downloaded the Rhodes V8 some days ago and it's more like 20 GB. To be fair I wasn't particularly impressed with its sound despite having some pretty interesting features still missing in pianoteq like amp and cab models. The interface is very retro style and somewhat difficult to edit. In desperate need for a 8.1 update. xD

Oh right, perhaps the compressed download file was 14GB then?

I would've liked to see a Pianoteq version. Then again maybe it doesn't really sound substantially different enough to warrant a different physical model?

Same here, lol! Well, if I remember correctly they weren't going from somewhat different but they wanted to resurrect exactly this well know type of sound. The main drastic changes are to the electronics not the mechanical part. The console is in fact pretty busy compared to its predecessors. But the transparent lid is rad!

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by joannchr

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Key Fumbler wrote:
Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

K2 it's no a recreation of a real piano model, but an combination of many good characteristics of several models of different brands.

I remember when K2 was released many people found it perfect, while others found it too perfect. Modartt probably tried to get all good things from the best piano brands and add to a single virtual piano model.
Now with V8 engine making average piano tone more natural, K2 is being rediscovered.

If you find it too perfect, now you have the chance of increase the Condition Slider to get it more to personal taste.

What you said is absolutely true!

Physical Modeling is a technology that really surprises. I don't think I'll ever go back to sample-based keyboards!

Yes, I've ditched samples for piano.   I see the new Rhodes Mk8 is now a sample instrument with modelling elements. 100 layer sampling.
I guess "only 14GB+" is an achievement with 100 layers per key. It is still gobbling up drive space unnecessarily, and will lack the flexibility of adjustment of full physical modelling. No doubt it's decent enough but I would rather adjust the sound in Pianoteq 8, before even considering the price!

  But I guess you are not comparing apples to apples. True physical modelling today cannot be rendered on a home computer. It would take a huge cluster of powerful CPU's to render only 1 second of sound. You can expand storage and add TB's to your home computer at a relatively affordable price, whereby you cannot do the same with CPU. To be able to use full physical modelling instead of alternative algorithms such as modal synthesis or others will require a truly disruptive innovation in computing, maybe quantic computing or something of this nature.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Chopin87 wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:
Chopin87 wrote:

Downloaded the Rhodes V8 some days ago and it's more like 20 GB. To be fair I wasn't particularly impressed with its sound despite having some pretty interesting features still missing in pianoteq like amp and cab models. The interface is very retro style and somewhat difficult to edit. In desperate need for a 8.1 update. xD

Oh right, perhaps the compressed download file was 14GB then?

I would've liked to see a Pianoteq version. Then again maybe it doesn't really sound substantially different enough to warrant a different physical model?

Same here, lol! Well, if I remember correctly they weren't going from somewhat different but they wanted to resurrect exactly this well know type of sound. The main drastic changes are to the electronics not the mechanical part. The console is in fact pretty busy compared to its predecessors. But the transparent lid is rad! :)

Ha, I thought the transparent lid would be funky looking for shop to show off its inner workings, or possibly on a concert stage but I wouldn't really want that skeletal look in the home.
I must admit I didn't like the reverse colour keys either. Funky for a demonstrator though.
So had I entered their competition (which I didn't) It would have been awkward to be an ungrateful recipient of rather "Marmite" styling!
It looked kind of cool but not my cuppa.

We can easily copy what the electronics do to the sound in software. :)

Last edited by Key Fumbler (23-01-2023 18:31)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

joannchr wrote:

But I guess you are not comparing apples to apples. True physical modelling today cannot be rendered on a home computer. It would take a huge cluster of powerful CPU's to render only 1 second of sound. You can expand storage and add TB's to your home computer at a relatively affordable price, whereby you cannot do the same with CPU. To be able to use full physical modelling instead of alternative algorithms such as modal synthesis or others will require a truly disruptive innovation in computing, maybe quantic computing or something of this nature.

Pianoteq is still physical modelling though. Of course they use all kinds of techniques to limit the real-time CPU load rather than truly blindly modelling everything in minute detail regardless of whether that is even relevant to the human ear or not.

Consider you brain doesn't need to know the contents of the cupboards and the drawers, or the layout of the rudimentary plumbing of every house in a Western movie to accept that the streets and the houses are real or look believable from the outside.

Pianoteq needs to render no more and no less than your brain perceives as a real piano and each new generation is getting even better with incredible efficiency.

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Pianoteq's roots it's based in innovative pioneer technology developed in France, and carefully adapted to piano physics by Philippe Guillaume, and the goal it's to resume equations based in redundant informations. Once they know in details how piano physics works and responds to the work of hammers strings, vibrating and vibrating soundboard and creating waves in the air etc... they don't need to calculate everything, so they cut the redundant informations.

It's not like MP3 cutting frequencies not heard by human hearing. It's way more sophisticated than that.

Key Fumbler wrote:
joannchr wrote:

But I guess you are not comparing apples to apples. True physical modelling today cannot be rendered on a home computer. It would take a huge cluster of powerful CPU's to render only 1 second of sound. You can expand storage and add TB's to your home computer at a relatively affordable price, whereby you cannot do the same with CPU. To be able to use full physical modelling instead of alternative algorithms such as modal synthesis or others will require a truly disruptive innovation in computing, maybe quantic computing or something of this nature.

Pianoteq is still physical modelling though. Of course they use all kinds of techniques to limit the real-time CPU load rather than truly blindly modelling everything in minute detail regardless of whether that is even relevant to the human ear or not.

Consider you brain doesn't need to know the contents of the cupboards and the drawers, or the layout of the rudimentary plumbing of every house in a Western movie to accept that the streets and the houses are real or look believable from the outside.

Pianoteq needs to render no more and no less than your brain perceives as a real piano and each new generation is getting even better with incredible efficiency.

Last edited by Beto-Music (24-01-2023 17:12)

Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

joannchr wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:
Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

What you said is absolutely true!

Physical Modeling is a technology that really surprises. I don't think I'll ever go back to sample-based keyboards!

Yes, I've ditched samples for piano.   I see the new Rhodes Mk8 is now a sample instrument with modelling elements. 100 layer sampling.
I guess "only 14GB+" is an achievement with 100 layers per key. It is still gobbling up drive space unnecessarily, and will lack the flexibility of adjustment of full physical modelling. No doubt it's decent enough but I would rather adjust the sound in Pianoteq 8, before even considering the price!

  But I guess you are not comparing apples to apples. True physical modelling today cannot be rendered on a home computer. It would take a huge cluster of powerful CPU's to render only 1 second of sound. You can expand storage and add TB's to your home computer at a relatively affordable price, whereby you cannot do the same with CPU. To be able to use full physical modelling instead of alternative algorithms such as modal synthesis or others will require a truly disruptive innovation in computing, maybe quantic computing or something of this nature.

I didn't understand what you meant. Isn't Pianoteq based entirely on Physical Modeling in fact?

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by Pianophile

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

I've really warmed to the K2 Warm too. I now use it as often as the Steinway D and in fact prefer it for certain things. I was playing the Schubert D960 sonata the other day; with the K2 Warm present, I was able to get a great sound that gets remarkably close to some of my favourite recordings (my playing is a different matter of course!).

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Leandro, tentei te contatar em privado através do forum. Não recebeu o email?

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

What you said is absolutely true!

Physical Modeling is a technology that really surprises. I don't think I'll ever go back to sample-based keyboards!

Reply by Gaston

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

Especially in this most recent Pianoteq 8 version, the K2 has been imposing and with an incredibly pleasant sound to my ear. The "K2 Warm" preset has been my favorite ever since. It's impossible not to be captivated by its "fat and dirty" sound and at the same time soft and with an incredibly balanced dynamics where the closed of the pianissimo and the strident of the fortissimo appear distinctly.
Congratulations to the Modartt team!

Thank you Professor for bringing us back to the K2 !
I had rather neglected it until now, but with Pianoteq 8 it is a rediscovery !
Here is my first music made with the K2 Warm :

https://hearthis.at/xnwdv7yv/idees-saugrenues/

Gérard Delassus
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Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Gaston wrote:
Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

Especially in this most recent Pianoteq 8 version, the K2 has been imposing and with an incredibly pleasant sound to my ear. The "K2 Warm" preset has been my favorite ever since. It's impossible not to be captivated by its "fat and dirty" sound and at the same time soft and with an incredibly balanced dynamics where the closed of the pianissimo and the strident of the fortissimo appear distinctly.
Congratulations to the Modartt team!

Thank you Professor for bringing us back to the K2 !
I had rather neglected it until now, but with Pianoteq 8 it is a rediscovery !
Here is my first music made with the K2 Warm :

https://hearthis.at/xnwdv7yv/idees-saugrenues/

You are a great pianist. I see you have songwriting skills. Also, the overlapping scales you made are quite creative.
Congratulations!

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by Pianoteqenthusiast

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Gaston wrote:
Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

Especially in this most recent Pianoteq 8 version, the K2 has been imposing and with an incredibly pleasant sound to my ear. The "K2 Warm" preset has been my favorite ever since. It's impossible not to be captivated by its "fat and dirty" sound and at the same time soft and with an incredibly balanced dynamics where the closed of the pianissimo and the strident of the fortissimo appear distinctly.
Congratulations to the Modartt team!

Thank you Professor for bringing us back to the K2 !
I had rather neglected it until now, but with Pianoteq 8 it is a rediscovery !
Here is my first music made with the K2 Warm :

https://hearthis.at/xnwdv7yv/idees-saugrenues/


Wondeful! Very nice K 2 sound. Gaston makes undoubtledly amazing pianoteq music. Over 500 recordings and still growing. Dear Gaston, I think this piece is among your best so far, and best this year. Thank you Gerard   Love it! Keep going!

Best wishes,

Stig

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (27-01-2023 22:51)

Reply by Blues_Muse

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Thanks to all the posters on this thread -- and the fine music. Sounds wonderful. I wanted to bump this thread.  Indeed, the K2 warm setting sounds splendid.
Within the K2 piano model lies some intriguing mic and effects choices. I studied them and learned a ton.
I agree with the poster  who has taken some of the K2 choices to other pianos. After K2 warm, my next favorite is the K2 Player Jazz preset.
This one has 2 stereo mics and is slightly easier to manually transfer to other pianos compared to the K2 Warm.

I love the sounds of the K2 Player Jazz preset choices for mic and effects applied to the Steinway B. It's a fun Steinway B mod to try to recreate some of the Rudy van G / Hackensack "darker" Steinway B tones from the Hard Bop days of lore. Thank you.

Add K2 player Jazz mic settings to Steinway B .....
Compensation - level OFF + delay = OFF   

Mic 1  Royer SF-12 Stereo Ribbon Microphone
X = +0.521
Y = +0.586
Z = 1.340
Angle = -66.8
Vertical Angle = -34.7
-
Mic 1  Output 1
Level = -6 dB  ( -3 changed)
Delay = 0
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #1 Output 2   
Level = -16 dB
Delay = +30
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #2    Royer SF-12 Stereo Ribbon Microphone
X = +1.121
Y = +0.586
Z = 1.330
Angle = +54.5
Vertical Angle = -33.7

Mic 2  Output 1
Level = -16 dB  ( -3 changed)
Delay = +30
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #2 Output 2   
Level = -6 dB
Delay = 0
Reversed polarity = 0
------------
EFFECTS

EQ3   90  Hz,  -3.0 dB  Q = 6 for the baseline setting -- then tweak for the room + preferences (add gentle highs >= 4.4KHz for example)
Delay Settings
Mix = 5%
Delay time = 60 ms
Feedback = 0
Tone = -0.5

REVERB clean studio
+ 6dB  0.5 seconds
Room size = 12.00, predelay = 0.050
Tone = 0 , early reflections = 0

Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: I'm in love with "K2 Warm".

Blues_Muse wrote:

Thanks to all the posters on this thread -- and the fine music. Sounds wonderful. I wanted to bump this thread.  Indeed, the K2 warm setting sounds splendid.
Within the K2 piano model lies some intriguing mic and effects choices. I studied them and learned a ton.
I agree with the poster  who has taken some of the K2 choices to other pianos. After K2 warm, my next favorite is the K2 Player Jazz preset.
This one has 2 stereo mics and is slightly easier to manually transfer to other pianos compared to the K2 Warm.

I love the sounds of the K2 Player Jazz preset choices for mic and effects applied to the Steinway B. It's a fun Steinway B mod to try to recreate some of the Rudy van G / Hackensack "darker" Steinway B tones from the Hard Bop days of lore. Thank you.

Add K2 player Jazz mic settings to Steinway B .....
Compensation - level OFF + delay = OFF   

Mic 1  Royer SF-12 Stereo Ribbon Microphone
X = +0.521
Y = +0.586
Z = 1.340
Angle = -66.8
Vertical Angle = -34.7
-
Mic 1  Output 1
Level = -6 dB  ( -3 changed)
Delay = 0
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #1 Output 2   
Level = -16 dB
Delay = +30
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #2    Royer SF-12 Stereo Ribbon Microphone
X = +1.121
Y = +0.586
Z = 1.330
Angle = +54.5
Vertical Angle = -33.7

Mic 2  Output 1
Level = -16 dB  ( -3 changed)
Delay = +30
Reversed polarity = 0

Mic #2 Output 2   
Level = -6 dB
Delay = 0
Reversed polarity = 0
------------
EFFECTS

EQ3   90  Hz,  -3.0 dB  Q = 6 for the baseline setting -- then tweak for the room + preferences (add gentle highs >= 4.4KHz for example)
Delay Settings
Mix = 5%
Delay time = 60 ms
Feedback = 0
Tone = -0.5

REVERB clean studio
+ 6dB  0.5 seconds
Room size = 12.00, predelay = 0.050
Tone = 0 , early reflections = 0


Your research is very important. It contributes greatly to the enrichment of this piano, which has interesting secrets.

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria