Topic by BarbaraRB

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Topic: Confusing/disturbing problem!

All of a sudden, I can only get the PTQ sounds through my headphones.  When I change the plug (as I've been doing all along) to connect the computer to my Roland piano (instead of the headphones) I can only get the sound of the Roland, not the PTQ instrument I've been using.

I've checked the back of the piano to make sure that everything is still connected, and it is.  I've tried it with and without external speakers.  And I've tried it with a variety of different PTQ instruments.

I don't know what the problem could be.  It works perfectly with the headphones -- just not without them.  This means I can't record anything using Pianoteq, which is awful.

Does anybody have any suggestions?  It worked in the past (most recently last month), and I'm not doing anything differently.  Appreciate any help anyone can provide!

P.S.  I think this started after I upgraded to 8.0.  I did download the updated Studio Bundle.  Could it be related to the upgrade?

Last edited by BarbaraRB (05-12-2022 17:43)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Hi Barbara,
Could you remind us of your hardware setup. Are you saying that your Roland digital piano plays your computer sources through its internal speakers?
Or are you saying you put out to external speakers, not part of the digital piano?

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Key Fumbler wrote:

Hi Barbara,
Could you remind us of your hardware setup. Are you saying that your Roland digital piano plays your computer sources through its internal speakers?
Or are you saying you put out to external speakers, not part of the digital piano?

I installed PTQ on a laptop.  The laptop is directly connected to my Roland.  When I use headphones (99% of the time) I plug the headphones into the laptop.  When I want to be able to hear the piano without headphones, especially to record, I swap out the headphone jack for another plug that is connected to the laptop. I never unplug that cord from the back of the computer, but keep it attached to the microphone stand (which holds my cellphone for recording) when it isn't in use.

I have speakers, but haven't ever used them since I got Pianoteq.  I tried them today to see if that would help, but it doesn't.

I checked my YouTube account, and the last times I recorded, using PTQ, were at the end of November, when everything worked perfectly.  The key thing is that nothing has changed except for the PTQ update. None of the plugs on the back of the piano have come loose -- I checked.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

Last edited by BarbaraRB (05-12-2022 18:39)

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

BarbaraRB wrote:

The laptop is directly connected to my Roland.  When I use headphones (99% of the time) I plug the headphones into the laptop.  When I want to be able to hear the piano without headphones, especially to record, I swap out the headphone jack for another plug that is connected to the laptop. I never unplug that cord from the back of the computer, but keep it attached to the microphone stand (which holds my cellphone for recording) when it isn't in use.

Ths needs some more clarification regarding how audio is routed. Normally, the USB connection between a digital piano or keyboard synth and the PC is just for MIDI data and the audio jacks on the keyboard are only for output from the keyboard. Digital audio from Pianoteq (either standalone or as a VSTi in a DAW) would have to be routed to an audio interface for digital to analog conversion and from there to headphones or to an external amp or powered monitors.  I suppose some newer keyboards might support routing external audio to their internal speakers either via analog audio inputs or as digital audio via the USB connection, but that would be unusual and would likely require making appropriate settings in the keyboard to hear the external audio instead of the onboard sounds.

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

brundlefly wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:

The laptop is directly connected to my Roland.  When I use headphones (99% of the time) I plug the headphones into the laptop.  When I want to be able to hear the piano without headphones, especially to record, I swap out the headphone jack for another plug that is connected to the laptop. I never unplug that cord from the back of the computer, but keep it attached to the microphone stand (which holds my cellphone for recording) when it isn't in use.

Ths needs some more clarification regarding how audio is routed. Normally, the USB connection between a digital piano or keyboard synth and the PC is just for MIDI data and the audio jacks on the keyboard are only for output from the keyboard. Digital audio from Pianoteq (either standalone or as a VSTi in a DAW) would have to be routed to an audio interface for digital to analog conversion and from there to headphones or to an external amp or powered monitors.  I suppose some newer keyboards might support routing external audio to their internal speakers either via analog audio inputs or as digital audio via the USB connection, but that would be unusual and would likely require making appropriate settings in the keyboard to hear the external audio instead of the onboard sounds.

Thanks for your response. It's probably unrealistic to expect anyone to diagnose this via internet. I don't use an audio interface or anything like that. My setup worked perfectly until the upgrade. Now it works perfectly with headphones, but not otherwise.  I'll probably need to call my computer guy, who originally set it up for me. He's also a musician who uses Ravenscroft and has an entire studio. It may be that the upgrade changed some settings. In any case, I've never encountered any tech problem Joe couldn't solve in the 18 years he's worked with me. I don't have the knowledge/skills to do this on my own. I can use a system once it's set up, but that's about it. My goals in this area are limited. I want to be able to play the PTQ instruments, record them, and share with family, friends, and in my piano groups.

Thanks again.

Last edited by BarbaraRB (05-12-2022 21:59)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

This is how it's hooked up:

https://www.modartt.com/hookup

Reply by TheodorN

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Regarding the hookup picture, it's worth mentioning that it might be interpreted to mean there are two USB cables coming out of the computer, but there is only one.

There are two options when connecting a digital piano (DP) to the computer, in the case of no external audio interface.

Option 1 Most DPs have a USB input, for connecting the DP to the computer, for establishing a MIDI connection to it. In that case, a USB A to B cable is needed, often called a printer cable, since it's also used to connect printers to PCs.

Option 2 Other instruments, especially older ones, may only have MIDI connectors. In that case the USB to MIDI interface is needed.

So either Option 1 or Option 2 applies, not both. BarbaraRB probably doesn't need this information, since her setup worked before, but in case anyone else is wondering about this, I thought these (maybe obvious) further explanations. I personally sometimes find diagrams like this hard to understand.

Last edited by TheodorN (05-12-2022 23:22)

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

TheodorN wrote:

Regarding the hookup picture, it's worth mentioning that it might be interpreted to mean there are two USB cables coming out of the computer, but there is only one.

There are two options when connecting a digital piano (DP) to the computer, in the case of no external audio interface.

Option 1 Most DPs have a USB input, for connecting the DP to the computer, for establishing a MIDI connection to it. In that case, a USB A to B cable is needed, often called a printer cable, since it's also used to connect printers to PCs.

Option 2 Other instruments, especially older ones, may only have MIDI connectors. In that case the USB to MIDI interface is needed.

So either Option 1 or Option 2 applies, not both. BarbaraRB probably doesn't need this information, since her setup worked before, but in case anyone else is wondering about this, I thought these (maybe obvious) further explanations. I personally sometimes find diagrams like this hard to understand.

Yes, I have Option 1.

Reply by marcos daniel

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Barbara, which Rolan do you own?
On my Kawai MP11, the input has its own volume slider, coud it be that inadvertively you set it down?

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

marcos daniel wrote:

Barbara, which Rolan do you own?
On my Kawai MP11, the input has its own volume slider, coud it be that inadvertively you set it down?

That's the sort of detail I was after so I hope that's it.
You've put the question better than I did. I wanted a model number so I could look at the manual for her.
That's what I was asking when I said:

Key Fumbler wrote:

Hi Barbara,
Could you remind us of your hardware setup. Are you saying that your Roland digital piano plays your computer sources through its internal speakers?
Or are you saying you put out to external speakers, not part of the digital piano?

Reply by Panicking Ant

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Key Fumbler wrote:
marcos daniel wrote:

Barbara, which Rolan do you own?
On my Kawai MP11, the input has its own volume slider, coud it be that inadvertively you set it down?

That's the sort of detail I was after so I hope that's it.
You've put the question better than I did. I wanted a model number so I could look at the manual for her.
That's what I was asking when I said:

Key Fumbler wrote:

Hi Barbara,
Could you remind us of your hardware setup. Are you saying that your Roland digital piano plays your computer sources through its internal speakers?
Or are you saying you put out to external speakers, not part of the digital piano?

Worth looking into PTQ Options: see what PTQ thinks your output device is.

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

BarbaraRB wrote:

I don't use an audio interface or anything like that.

At the risk of "mansplaining":  An audio interface is any device that converts digital audio to analog audio and/or vice versa. In your case, the headphone output is from an on-board audio interface built into the laptop.

When this stuff doesn't work as expected it can be challenging to troubleshoot even for the most experienced technician working hands-on with the equipment and software. I just spent 15 minutes yesterday figuring out why one particular project had gone silent, and I've been at this for 30+ years. But you should have your tech guy run through the basics of MIDI and audio routing in the different configurations you're using so you can at least describe it precisely if not troubleshoot it yourself.

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

brundlefly wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:

I don't use an audio interface or anything like that.

At the risk of "mansplaining":  An audio interface is any device that converts digital audio to analog audio and/or vice versa. In your case, the headphone output is from an on-board audio interface built into the laptop.

When this stuff doesn't work as expected it can be challenging to troubleshoot even for the most experienced technician working hands-on with the equipment and software. I just spent 15 minutes yesterday figuring out why one particular project had gone silent, and I've been at this for 30+ years. But you should have your tech guy run through the basics of MIDI and audio routing in the different configurations you're using so you can at least describe it precisely if not troubleshoot it yourself.

Thank you. I meant that I'm not using an external audio interface, such as a Focusrite, in response to an earlier question. My tech guy is coming Thursday and I'm sure he'll get it sorted out. He often does show me how to troubleshoot simple things on my own.

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

I figured out what I needed to do, and it had absolutely nothing to do with Pianoteq. I woke up this morning knowing what the problem was - I often solve problems in my sleep. It had to do with my setup, and because I don't record things that often I had forgotten one element.

I was correct about switching the two cords (headphone cord and the other), but I also need to use my external speakers in order to use the PTQ sounds rather than the Roland's internal sounds.  And I need to keep the Roland's volume turned down to zero.

When I did that this morning, it worked fine.

I'm not going to cancel my appointment tomorrow with Joe, my tech guy, because I have another issue he can help me with and it wouldn't hurt me to have a "refresher" tutoring session on integrating my various components.

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions.  I started using computers back in the days of DOS, and have always been able to learn to do everything I needed to do, at home and at work.  But I only learn applications that are relevant to me, and nothing about how it actually works.  I'm too old to change my course on that, because the technical aspect just isn't how my mind works.  I was an English major and my whole life has been focused on the humanities -- literature, history, the arts, etc.

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

More satisfying when you come to it for yourself.

Well done Babs!

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

BarbaraRB wrote:

I woke up this morning knowing what the problem was - I often solve problems in my sleep.

Glad to hear it (pardon the pun).  I find the shower is also a good place to solve problems. ;^)

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

brundlefly wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:

I woke up this morning knowing what the problem was - I often solve problems in my sleep.

Glad to hear it (pardon the pun).  I find the shower is also a good place to solve problems. ;^)


I'll keep that in mind!

Reply by BarbaraRB

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Re: Confusing/disturbing problem!

Key Fumbler wrote:

More satisfying when you come to it for yourself.

Well done Babs!

Thank you. I appreciated your willingness to help! One thing I'll do, after my tech guy visits tomorrow, is to create a "job aid," a written description of all the key steps.  When I was involved in corporate training, I often had people create job aids for things that were important, but not done frequently.  Those are the things we all tend to forget.

Last edited by BarbaraRB (08-12-2022 00:28)