Topic: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Hi,

I've been reading the forum and using the demo version of Pianoteq for a while now and recently bought the full program in the Black Friday sale.

After some tweaking of the sample rate, etc, it works fine on my wife's Core i3 laptop but I need something that can live in my music room permanently and be dedicated only to the program.

Should I be looking for the highest level processor I can afford, like a Core i7, or would I be better getting more RAM? And as this will be sitting on top of my digital piano by the music desk, should I be looking at a smaller screen, like an 11 or 13 inch?

Finally, as this will be a dedicated machine, is there a consensus on whether a Windows or Apple machine would be best?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Regards,

Jeremy

ps I also bought Organteq but I assume that the same principle applies to both programs.

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

This depends more on what else you want to use the laptop for.  Pianoteq runs on pretty lightweight hardware and has pretty low resource demands.  On the other hand if you want to run a bunch of other VSTs or DAWs or similar then they will be the ones you need RAM and CPU power for, not Pianoteq.

So I would think carefully about what else you need the laptop for.

As for Apple or Windows I'm running Linux and very happy with that.  Again your choice of Apple or Windows would have more to do with what else you want to run on the laptop.  I've use both Apple and Windows laptops and cannot say I was ever wild about either one (again, I've install Linux Mint on several systems I own and prefer it, but it's not for everyone and I'm an old Linux software developer so there is that).  I've not been keen on Apple as (in the past) they've messed me up with their failure to support older systems (and not very old systems, just a few years) in terms of software upgrades.  There's a tendency to force you to upgrade the OS version just to get support for new versions of software.

I'd suggest being wary of i7 systems.  They're not as powerful as the branding would suggest and in practice you pay a lot for comparatively little over an i5.  You'd really need to be a power hungry user to justify that premium IMO.  Again, if you're running a lot of heavyweight VSTs then maybe it's justifiable.

I'd prefer a bigger screen more than anything else if music is your thing as you'll likely want to e.g. display "sheet" music on it.  Consider a larger external display rather than just going for a large screen laptop as you'll pay a considerable premium usually for a large screen laptop and they're not really all that large.

One thing to watch for - lots of USB ports.  I'm not a fan of depending on hubs for USB as this means they're not all powered properly, whereas lots of built-in USB sockets all have power.  Not something everyone needs, but a thing I've found handy over the years.  You'd be surprised what a difference having e.g. an extra USB port makes, especially with one USB port required for a MIDI keyboard.

StephenG

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

+1 to what sjgcit said. I can add only few things:

* if this computer is only for the piano, consider a large monitor (the size of two letter pages or more, so you can use instead of a music holder) with a small computer such as a zimaboard

* for computers, use the single-thread performance of the page suggested by Modartt in their FAQ, if you want to rank them by CPU horsepower, but keep in mind that any in that list with a reasonable amount of memory (4GB or more) will be more than adequate

* if anything, try to find one which has reviews with EXCELLENT power managements: avoid fans completely if possible while at the same time allowing you to keep "churning" at full throttle rather than going in power-save mode (these are somewhat opposite requirements, so you have to dig a bit)

* in my experience too, Linux is much better than Windows and Mac, since YOU are in control and can fix things if needed (e.g. the CPU reducing its clock speed) rather than relying on MS, Apple or the motherboard manufacturer's drivers

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Well, if you are into digitized sheet music, a 2in1 laptop might be the way to go. Software like "MobileSheets", (combined with the touchscreen and pen of a 2in1) will make handling and annotating your sheet music very easy.  An intel i5 processor with 8gb ram is plenty. Some laptops have better working onboard "DACs" then others, so you might need an external usb interface (e.g. Focusrite) for the best sound. As mentioned above, another consideration is fan noise, which may or may not be a problem, depending again, upon your hardware and software setup. I have a 4-year-old Lenovo 2in1 14" which works fine, and a recently purchased fan-less i5 Surface Pro 7+, which I will likely use for Pianoteq after the Lenovo becomes obsolete.

Lenovo Flex 14 2in1, Windows11,  Pianoteq 8 (Steinway D & B, Petrof, C. Bechstein, Steingraeber),  MobileSheets for windows, Casio PX-780, generic page turn pedal.

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

I agree with the 2 in 1 observation, now I'm using an HP x360 with 13" screen. The CPU I have is an Ryzen 7 5800U (but it is an overkill, a 5500U should be more than enough, or an i5). In any case, I trend to buy laptops over specified and keep them several years. I suggest you to look at the generation of te processor, because there have been big improvements these last years. I would aim to Intel i5 12th gen or AMD R5 5th or 6th gen. But i3 or R3 should be enough now, may be not in 4 or 5 years.

Regarding the size of the screen, 17" would be nicer, I also use another 15" laptop and is better to read the music, but I use it on my Kawai MP11. Because the CL35 digital piano is so compact, the screen ends being near my eyes, so 13" is ok. Also, being a small laptop, the fan kicks in from time to time, but it is due to windows stupid tasks we don't ask but they are there (like randomly checking the system for viruses).

https://i.ibb.co/HpRMRHw/setup.png

It is barely noticeable, but the score can be seen quite well (I just use edge in full screen, and Calibre to organize the files).

On the same piano, I used to have just a monitor and an Odroid N2 which worked flawlessly (and costs less than USD 100, running Linux). But I needed to have a mouse (needed to open the PDF files) and a mini keyboard because at the end of the day, the N2 is a computer and from time to time you need to write something. So I had the USB for MIDI, the HDMI for the screen, the power supply for both screen and PC, it was a little mess of cables, but it was OK and cheap. My current solution is 10X more expensive but easier to work with.

In any case, don't think that a Windows touch device is as good as an Android/iOs/iPadOS device. Windows as touch oriented operating system is terrible, it's a shame to have this operating system on such nice devices as laptops with touch screens! Pianoteq is not very adapted for touch devices either, but in compact mode and zoom at 175%, it is kind of OK.

Last edited by marcos daniel (05-12-2022 04:05)

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Always consider spending 100 bucks less on the laptop and investing that in a dedicated USB audio device with its own ASIO drivers. Half the posts on the forum seem to be about fixing issues that would instantly be fixed by using an audio interface.

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

marcos daniel wrote:

On the same piano, I used to have just a monitor and an Odroid N2 which worked flawlessly (and costs less than USD 100, running Linux). But I needed to have a mouse (needed to open the PDF files) and a mini keyboard because at the end of the day, the N2 is a computer and from time to time you need to write something. So I had the USB for MIDI, the HDMI for the screen, the power supply for both screen and PC, it was a little mess of cables, but it was OK and cheap.

For occasional use, there is a very good app for Android phones/tablets (I assume there must be one for iPhone too) which pretends to be a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Of course it has all the drawbacks of a phone/tablet keyboard, so you wouldn't use to type your dissertation on it.... But no cables and no additional devices messing up the piano are needed!!!

With some logistics work, something like the N2 could be attached behind the monitor and attached to it with a very short cable tucked there. If one is creative and has the means could even do a 3D printing or wooden box to hide the whole thing, including the power supply. Basically a DIY all-in-one. In that way you will have only two cables: power (to be split between the Odroid and display) and USB (to be used for both MIDI and audio). This is what I am planning to do myself if/when my 12y old all-in-one iMac (on which I am currently running Linux) dies or my playing becomes better for me to require more performance. But definitely no keyboard or mouse, that would be a mess, and for the occasional use the app is great.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Sanderxpander wrote:

Always consider spending 100 bucks less on the laptop and investing that in a dedicated USB audio device with its own ASIO drivers. Half the posts on the forum seem to be about fixing issues that would instantly be fixed by using an audio interface.

excellent advice, imo

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

ATG wrote:

After some tweaking of the sample rate, etc, it works fine on my wife's Core i3 laptop but I need something that can live in my music room permanently and be dedicated only to the program.

As for the processor requirements the best is to make own investigation. With Pianoteq playing on your wf laptop go to the Task Manager and then to Performance. You will see the processor load in realtime. 

If you plan machine dedicated mainly to Pianoteq the conclusion will be clear: even i3 is an overkill.

Recently I built dedicated small computer running on Win11 and powered by low-end Intel Celeron N5105 processor, with Pianoteq the processor load is 30-40%. So, instead on focusing on the processor it is more constructive to think about the user interface. In this vein, with my small processor I am using big and powerful 17" touch display @2560x1440 resolution. Not the smallest issue here is that these components can be ordered from Aliexpress at affordable prices.  And despite what somebody said, Win11 touch is working fine to the extent it has not even come to my mind that there might be problems with it.

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Both Pianoteq and Organteq are light on RAM, being modeled rather than based on large sample libraries. I suppose if you are making this truly a dedicated system you could get away with 8 or even 4GB RAM but I would never buy a "general purpose" machine with less than 16GB anymore. If it turns out you enjoy playing virtual instruments and you want to add some, or you enjoy recording and want to add proper recording software, you'll quickly run into limits with 8GB.

As for CPU, Pianoteq isn't that heavy and relies mostly on single core speed, so probably a fairly recent i5 should be more than enough for the next few generations of Pianoteq. An i5 will do better than an i3 if you start layering instruments or do recording, too. An i7 is probably overkill unless you're really planning to turn this into a studio.

Always budget some 100/150 euros for a dedicated USB audio interface. It's better to have slightly lower specs on the computer but with a dedicated interface, than to have a fast computer with only an on-board sound chip.

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

Sorry not to have come back sooner, but thank you for your kind replies and some thought provoking suggestions.

I think I will go for a 12th Gen i5 with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD, which hits the sweet spot between cost and performance, for me at least.

Having an over-specced machine will be useful if (when...) I try out some other Virtual Pipe Organs which are more resource hungry than Organteq.

Regards,

Jeremy

Re: Newbie asking about best laptop for Pianoteq

ATG wrote:

Sorry not to have come back sooner, but thank you for your kind replies and some thought provoking suggestions.

I think I will go for a 12th Gen i5 with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD, which hits the sweet spot between cost and performance, for me at least.

Having an over-specced machine will be useful if (when...) I try out some other Virtual Pipe Organs which are more resource hungry than Organteq.

Regards,

Jeremy

That sounds like a great VST machine, performance wise! And you can always add a dedicated sample library SSD if you start really getting into it. Have fun!