Topic by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Topic: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Hi, all.

I'd like to hear any suggestions how to avoid a spontaneous annoying crackling noise when using Pianoteq 8 Standard on PC.
It mostly soft crackling noise not a loud click but it is noticeable especially when you play softly and slow and not really predictable however happens as well when you play more actively, loud, in full range of keyboard and dynamic with a lot of pedal using.
The system is fast enough and no CPU overload detected.

PC specs:
MSI GE63VR 7RF
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
RAM 32.0 GB
Windows 10 Pro
Version 22H2
Realtek High Definition Audio 32 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) exclusive mode on
Asio4all v.2.15 (buffer offset 1ms - I put higher numbers and the same result)

Please note "ultimate performance" power option is on (with "high performance" the same result maybe even worst)

Pianoteq 8 Standard specs (I use it standalone):
Sample rate: 48000 Hz (the same with 44100 Hz)
Audio buffer size: 128 samples (higher or lower rate the same result)
Bit depth: 32 bits
Multicore rendering / CPU Overload detection - on/off = the same result
Internal sample rate 48000 Hz
Maximum polyphony 256 (I tried from 48 - 256 including Auto - same result but I think the sound is better on high numbers)

Based on "audio load" section in "performance" tab there are no overload as well as in PC's task manager.

I tried to use Pianoteq in flight mode (no internet), antivirus, and other startup programs off, but it didn't help.

Any suggestions how to get rid of those noises?

OR

Should I consider external audio interface to avoid all sorts of annoying clicks, crackling noises etc. as the only way to get rid of these noises?
If external audio interface is the only solution please recommend specific model (I need it just for my keyboard to enjoy live performance and maybe to record in the future). But I'd definitely prefer to figure it out without external audio interface if it is possible.

Last edited by hodor (02-12-2022 23:39)

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

hodor wrote:

Hi, all.

I'd like to hear any suggestions how to avoid a spontaneous annoying crackling noise when using Pianoteq 8 Standard on PC.
It mostly soft crackling noise not a loud click but it is noticeable especially when you play softly and slow and not really predictable however happens as well when you play more actively, loud, in full range of keyboard and dynamic with a lot of pedal using.
The system is fast enough and no CPU overload detected.

PC specs:
MSI GE63VR 7RF
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
RAM 32.0 GB
Windows 10 Pro
Version 22H2
Realtek High Definition Audio 32 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) exclusive mode on
Asio4all v.2.15 (buffer offset 1ms - I put higher numbers and the same result)

Please note "ultimate performance" power option is on (with "high performance" the same result maybe even worst)

Pianoteq 8 Standard specs (I use it standalone):
Sample rate: 48000 Hz (the same with 44100 Hz)
Audio buffer size: 128 samples (higher or lower rate the same result)
Bit depth: 32 bits
Multicore rendering / CPU Overload detection - on/off = the same result
Internal sample rate 48000 Hz
Maximum polyphony 256 (I tried from 48 - 256 including Auto - same result but I think the sound is better on high numbers)

Based on "audio load" section in "performance" tab there are no overload as well as in PC's task manager.

I tried to use Pianoteq in flight mode (no internet), antivirus, and other startup programs off, but it didn't help.

Any suggestions how to get rid of those noises?

OR

Should I consider external audio interface to avoid all sorts of annoying clicks, crackling noises etc. as the only way to get rid of these noises?
If external audio interface is the only solution please recommend specific model (I need it just for my keyboard to enjoy live performance and maybe to record in the future). But I'd definitely prefer to figure it out without external audio interface if it is possible.

Have you tried setting it to 24 bit? I doubt it'd make a difference but true 32 bit DA equipped interfaces are exceedingly rare so unless you're recording in the digital domain and plan to do a ton of processing it seems to me there's little point running it at 32 bit.

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Hang on I just reread the end of your post - are you using a generic internal sound chip? While it's sometimes possible with some effort and luck to get that working well, using a dedicated card with true ASIO drivers will almost certainly fix your issue.

It's hard to recommend anything without knowing your budget, your preferred port (PCI/USB/USB C/Thunderbolt/Firewire) or any future plans involving in- or outputs.

If you want something that is rock solid above all else and money isn't too much of an issue, pick up an RME Babyface or Fireface UCX (2).

Reply by Snowpine

  • Avatar
  • Snowpine
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 06-03-2018
  • Posts: 14

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

I am not sure if it is the same case as yours, I had crackling noise problem too and found a workaround.

What I did was reducing the output volume from over 60 to around 30 on Windows. Also I increased the external speakers' volume to compensate it. Then the crackling noise disappeared.

I hope you give it a try.

Last edited by Snowpine (03-12-2022 02:18)

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Sanderxpander wrote:
hodor wrote:

Hi, all.

I'd like to hear any suggestions how to avoid a spontaneous annoying crackling noise when using Pianoteq 8 Standard on PC.
It mostly soft crackling noise not a loud click but it is noticeable especially when you play softly and slow and not really predictable however happens as well when you play more actively, loud, in full range of keyboard and dynamic with a lot of pedal using.
The system is fast enough and no CPU overload detected.

PC specs:
MSI GE63VR 7RF
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
RAM 32.0 GB
Windows 10 Pro
Version 22H2
Realtek High Definition Audio 32 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) exclusive mode on
Asio4all v.2.15 (buffer offset 1ms - I put higher numbers and the same result)

Please note "ultimate performance" power option is on (with "high performance" the same result maybe even worst)

Pianoteq 8 Standard specs (I use it standalone):
Sample rate: 48000 Hz (the same with 44100 Hz)
Audio buffer size: 128 samples (higher or lower rate the same result)
Bit depth: 32 bits
Multicore rendering / CPU Overload detection - on/off = the same result
Internal sample rate 48000 Hz
Maximum polyphony 256 (I tried from 48 - 256 including Auto - same result but I think the sound is better on high numbers)

Based on "audio load" section in "performance" tab there are no overload as well as in PC's task manager.

I tried to use Pianoteq in flight mode (no internet), antivirus, and other startup programs off, but it didn't help.

Any suggestions how to get rid of those noises?

OR

Should I consider external audio interface to avoid all sorts of annoying clicks, crackling noises etc. as the only way to get rid of these noises?
If external audio interface is the only solution please recommend specific model (I need it just for my keyboard to enjoy live performance and maybe to record in the future). But I'd definitely prefer to figure it out without external audio interface if it is possible.

Have you tried setting it to 24 bit? I doubt it'd make a difference but true 32 bit DA equipped interfaces are exceedingly rare so unless you're recording in the digital domain and plan to do a ton of processing it seems to me there's little point running it at 32 bit.


Yes, I did.
I don't know why but it changes to 24 bit on PC but in Pianoteq it stays 32 bit.
It didn't help me.

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Sanderxpander wrote:

Hang on I just reread the end of your post - are you using a generic internal sound chip? While it's sometimes possible with some effort and luck to get that working well, using a dedicated card with true ASIO drivers will almost certainly fix your issue.

It's hard to recommend anything without knowing your budget, your preferred port (PCI/USB/USB C/Thunderbolt/Firewire) or any future plans involving in- or outputs.

If you want something that is rock solid above all else and money isn't too much of an issue, pick up an RME Babyface or Fireface UCX (2).

Yes, I used internal sound.
I am planning to try external audio interface tomorrow as I've heard from few people it should fix "clicking and crackling" issue as well as should improve sound quality.
I need something simple but good one.
After a bit of research (as I am new to audio interfaces stuff) and I need it just for my keyboard for no clicks sound only basically, I think Volt 1 is a good decision https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Audio-...amp;sr=8-5
If it also will improve the sound that would be a bonus.
If I will get the same result with Behringer U-Phoria UM2 https://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-Audio-...amp;sr=8-2 for much cheaper price I'd rather to pay less.
I just never tried any of them so I don't know and need to try.
What do you think?

Last edited by hodor (03-12-2022 03:32)

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Snowpine wrote:

I am not sure if it is the same case as yours, I had crackling noise problem too and found a workaround.

What I did was reducing the output volume from over 60 to around 30 on Windows. Also I increased the external speakers' volume to compensate it. Then the crackling noise disappeared.

I hope you give it a try.

I use headphones straight from my PC so it won't help.
I'll try tomorrow external audio interface.

Reply by marcos daniel

  • Avatar
  • marcos daniel
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-09-2014
  • Posts: 280

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

I see you have a MSI laptop, I own one of the same brand, model MSI GL62M 7RD, the same CPU, half the RAM. I have never had those issues, the only thing I remember I removed was the "Nahimic" stuff, and always used asio4all. It worked fine, but as in this way you cannot use youtube, media player or anything but Pianoteq, I ended using an USB interface, the Behringer UMC404HD (I found it very underpriced, don't know why).
Now I have an UMC204HD which I found at $70 (it is usually a little more expensive). The driver for the two is the same but for some reason the 404 works a little better (not issues at smaller buffer values), but the difference in latency between the optimal settings is not noticeable.
The advantage, in my case, is that these sound interfaces have MIDI inputs, so you use just one USB port for the sound card and the digital piano.
With this kind of setup, if you want to remove the laptop, just need to unplug that single USB and you are ready to go.
Under windows 10, if you go this kind of cheap way, I suggest you use not the latest driver, but the second to last.

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

I am sad to say but after buying external audio interface (Volt 2 Universal Audio) the issue with crackling noise still exist...
There are less crackling noise but it still exist in spite of I use 256 samples buffer size on fast PC and even flight mode, turn off antivius and other opened progs...
The sound is beautiful and definitely better than from internal sound card BUT I have bought the audio interface to eliminate clicking issue and not for sound improvement.
Will test few more days and probably will return it to the shop as it doesn't help...

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Are you using the latest ASIO drivers from the manufacturer?
Try running latencymon (https://resplendence.com/latencymon) while playing PianoTeq, it should give you some clue as to which programs or drivers might be interfering. Some NVidia drivers are notorious. On my laptop, which is pretty streamlined, I can see a (small) performance hit when I use my touchpad. Sometimes it's in an unexpected place.

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Sanderxpander wrote:

Are you using the latest ASIO drivers from the manufacturer?
Try running latencymon (https://resplendence.com/latencymon) while playing PianoTeq, it should give you some clue as to which programs or drivers might be interfering. Some NVidia drivers are notorious. On my laptop, which is pretty streamlined, I can see a (small) performance hit when I use my touchpad. Sometimes it's in an unexpected place.

Of course I am using the latest ASIO drivers from the manufacturer as I bought the audio interface 2 days ago...
Latencymon didn't find any issue, once again my PC is fast.
As I understand it something related to Windows settings but I tried all I knew even Process Lasso as described https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-PsrIVChY

Last edited by hodor (06-12-2022 01:22)

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Are you saying you played Pianoteq while running Latencymon, got crackling and Latencymon DIDN'T report a problem? In that case the crackling almost certainly isn't related to CPU performance, perhaps you're overloading the output of Pianoteq, or clipping the input of your listening device?

Also, whether your computer is "fast" has only moderate effect on whether it's good at low latency audio. A large car with a turbo is fast but will always lose leaving the traffic lights compared to a motorcycle. Low latency performance depends on a lot more than the processor and laptops are somewhat notorious for creating trouble in that respect, that's what latencymon helps with.

Reply by jcitron

  • Avatar
  • jcitron
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Haverhill, MA USA
  • Registered: 08-02-2020
  • Posts: 119

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

Part of the issue is your laptop has other things running in the background that will kick in and interrupt your audio drivers. Windows 11 doesn't help matters much because the audio hardware driver used by Windows 11 is "heavy" and uses a lot of resources. On my system, I found I had some system culprits there along with the crapware that Dell puts on their desktops.

When I first encountered this, I upgraded my audio hardware from the pale and poor example of audio hardware that Dell uses in their desktop computers to a higher end SoundBlaster AE-9 thinking that the built-in hardware couldn't keep up. The AE-9 also has better control over the audio output and I was able to turn off the stupid special effects such as "theater" and "concert hall" that did nothing but make the audio too saturated. But that only helped a tiny bit even after adjusting the buffer settings for AIO, and I felt quite upset I had spent way too much money on the SoundBlaster setup.

Not being one to give up easily, I kept checking around and after researching online, I found Latency Monitor to monitor who was interrupting.

https://www.resplendence.com/main

With Latency Monitor running, I played. Whenever I heard the shocking ZAP sound or buzzing and clicking, I'd stop the monitoring and look at the output.

I had to do this numerous times and after a rather larger number of iterations, I finally killed a bunch of things that aren't necessary such as the XBOX Game Bar and Dell's Support Assistant software.

Dell's SA was the biggest culprit because when it kicks in, it grabs the system and starts interrupting the hardware as it checks the system. No matter what I did to adjust the schedule for the software worked and I ended up going into Computer Management and then Services and disabled the Dell SA and anything else that said DELL on it. You can also get there by right-clicking on the start menu icon and then choosing Computer Management. It's a lot quicker than digging for it in the Administrative Tools, or from a command prompt.

After going through this great exercise, I was able to run zap and buzz free. Honestly, I thought my speakers were blown on my expensive LX-17 when this first occurred and never thought it was the software being interrupted that caused that awful sound that would actually make me jump.

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

That's exactly what I recommended above, and the OP said "his PC is fast" and "latencymon didn't find anything".

Reply by hodor

  • Avatar
  • hodor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-11-2022
  • Posts: 16

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

After a lot of testing it looks like the issue is on the keyboard side as I have similar soft occasional pops (clicks) when keyboard isn't connected to the PC and I just use keyboard sound...
So it is nothing about my PC and vst.
It happens with different headphones as well.
I have Roland FP-7F with European plug and I used it with cheap power adaptor from 220 - 110 V.
I thought if I change cheap adaptor to more reliable (about $12 from Walmart) it might help but it didn't.
The clicks are random however almost in every composition I play I can hear that clicks. It is not CRACKLING NOISE like I've heard on Youtube from other people demonstrate their crackling issue but there are occasional clicks...
I don't know what else could be but some electric stuff with power adaptor or power cord. I may try original US cable without any middleman...
It looks like I just have to accept it...
If any suggestions how to fix it (without bringing to the repairmen) I'll appreciate it.

Reply by Sanderxpander

  • Avatar
  • Sanderxpander
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-11-2022
  • Posts: 57

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

If it happens both on the output of your soundcard and on the output of your keyboard, using different sound sources (VST vs internal keyboard sound) and using different headphones the only thing it could conceivably be is power. Although your laptop battery should normally cover dips and spikes.

If you have a small home with few power groups your power may be "dirty". Try turning off your fridge or your airco or anything that might switch itself on automatically/periodically and listen again.

Reply by jcitron

  • Avatar
  • jcitron
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Haverhill, MA USA
  • Registered: 08-02-2020
  • Posts: 119

Re: Crackling noise in Pianoteq 8 Standard

hodor wrote:

After a lot of testing it looks like the issue is on the keyboard side as I have similar soft occasional pops (clicks) when keyboard isn't connected to the PC and I just use keyboard sound...
So it is nothing about my PC and vst.
It happens with different headphones as well.
I have Roland FP-7F with European plug and I used it with cheap power adaptor from 220 - 110 V.
I thought if I change cheap adaptor to more reliable (about $12 from Walmart) it might help but it didn't.
The clicks are random however almost in every composition I play I can hear that clicks. It is not CRACKLING NOISE like I've heard on Youtube from other people demonstrate their crackling issue but there are occasional clicks...
I don't know what else could be but some electric stuff with power adaptor or power cord. I may try original US cable without any middleman...
It looks like I just have to accept it...
If any suggestions how to fix it (without bringing to the repairmen) I'll appreciate it.

Have you tried playing without the headphones? This could be a crappy headphone jack or cable and hopefully not the jack. Headphones are notorious for getting yanked pulled, chewed by and dragged around the room by pets. Yes, my late cat "stole" my expensive headphones and I found them broken in the living room downstairs. She stole everything and would put it there. It was funny but not if you know what I mean!