How to keep the general parameters of a morphed instrument?

Hi MaurozionP,

if I understand, it seems like you are describing expected behaviour when using "Layering", rather than Morphing?

Morphing is more about the automatic blending of 2 or more instruments - so if you edit 1 of those, a sort of summing is done and actuated component parts of each instrument will possibly move to accommodate the eventual final move of 'flattening' the brew, to make your final singular complete instrument which will then have its own settings and can be saved.

Layering, instead of Morphing is maybe closer to what you think of in terms of remaining each as completely separated instruments which do not alter to accommodate the others in total. You can edit any/each layered instruments and they do not interfere with the settings of the others.

I hope I understood your post, and that helped - but let us know if I've misunderstood.

Thanks for the reply, Qexl. I mean morphing (not layering). I know that morphed parameters are result of components parameters - this is the principle of morphing.

But I can edit morphed parameters too. How does it work? Does it change "back" components parameters?

Example of what I mean:
1. I edit velocity map of morphed instrument.
2. I would like to hear the result of changing some parameter of component instrument (e.g. it's string length, which is 1.05). In the moment of first, even slightest change (e.g. from 1.05 to 1.04) the final map (and all other edited morphed parameters) change rapidly a lot, so I cannot hear the result of this single change.
3. When set to the previous value of the string length (1.05) for the component, my edited parameters of morphed instrument do not revert - they are lost.
    BTW,  it is a very easy way to lose these edited values.

Hence my question - how to edit morphing components and maintain edited parameters for morphed instrument?

Yes, I use Pro.

Thanks for reply Qexl, I'm preparing an example with pictures.

Great explanation Maurizio

I'll forward this thread to Julien. Feel free to also reference it if you contact support too BTW. (they are helpful).

I cannot reproduce this behaviour however - it seems to work as expected here.

I'm using Windows 10 - your user interface looks also like Windows - so probably your experience should be more or less similar. But..

For an immediate workaround, for now I'd suggest something like this:

Once done with a lot of morphing settings and you hear things close to the way you want..

Click the edit button for individual morphing instruments (before hitting the lower edit button, and before flattening etc.).. and save each instrument as it is (using normal clicking on 'save' icon). Give these 2 instruments names like Morph1-my-new-sound - and Morph-2-my-new-sound (or whatever you will like/remember). Keep or deleted when time comes to decide on that later (I keep too many!).

Then next, go ahead and hit the lower edit button... and see/hear what happens.

By this point, if the case is that things sound/look wrong from there, you can just 'clear', and begin again by re-loading your saved instruments - not having to re-do all that main workflow over again.

Not perfect but hopefully can save a lot of time at least until a fix or news comes.

Other things to try, would be to re-install Pianoteq again. (I don't love that advice usually and haven't had to do it with Pianoteq myself).

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In my case this happens...

For example, if morphed inst. 1 has piano hammer at 100%, and 2 has it 0%...

then if I select edit (lowest one) I see the morphed result which is hammer at 50%.

Next, I click mute on instrument 1, the result is that I see the expected morphed instrument 1 settings.. then remove mute.. and I then see the same expected 50% morphed values return again.

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Hope that helps for now - and again, such an excellent demonstration and step through!

Of course, but try change this morphed result (EDIT morphed parameters for final instrument) e.g. to 75%, and after mute/unmute inst. 1 you will have 50% again. Your change will be lost, just like all the other changes of morphed parameters you would do.

To be sure, if we begin at image 1, What has happened before that?

If you have not clicked 'edit' per each instrument separately (the edit button on the line with the instrument name) and made changes to those individually, then if you only have begun by using the lower edit button, there's going to be nothing to save, nor to compute back to.

I think, if you want for sure something like a saved state to return to, it helps to think of these as steps:

Load instrument 1
load instrument 2

For instrument 1, click it's individual edit button on right side. Edit things.
For instrument 2, click it's individual edit button on right side. Edit things.

Then, you have something morphed 'from top to bottom' as a workflow

By beginning with the lower edit button, you are working from bottom up.. which is probably not intended, or for now maybe not perfect in various ways.

Next thing to do AFTER all the editing individual instruments, this is the time you might then wish to click the lower edit button.

(I'd still often save the 2 instruments in their state first, depending on how much work - so I can save time, IF the lower final edits don't compute well.. I'd expect some buggy things going on, esp. if I've altered mics... and sometimes some things internally will overtake others from one instrument to the next.. so I definintely recommend working on individual instrument edits before finalizing with the lower edit button).

But, if only beginning by loading 2 instruments in, then ONLY editing using the lower edit button.. I'd suggest it's not the best way to work.

I've submitted to Julien the info - and await hearing back - I'd like to see the lower edit button's behaviour changed, so that the lower edit button can 'save' state better.. or become a clearer workflow etc. I have mentioned this. Fingers crossed.

Thank you for putting this forward - it's less complex than text makes it seem.

Hope all that helps.

Julien responded (with many thanks) that this is expected behaviour - but also that the answer, which I completely overlooked, is the "Stop" button

I generally feel it better to edit the individual instruments and avoid using the lower edit afterwards (just a personal kind of way of working, everyone will differ in what they feel works best for them).. so personally hadn't experienced the issue you did because I never felt the need to re-edit the morphed result via the lower edit button.. and I had tried it in the past and I totally fell unaware over time of its use cases.

But, it's good to know that it's as simple as clicking "Stop" (left of the lower edit button)..

Difinitely good to see it as a timeline/workflow.. from editing individual pianos to 'nearest' to the desired result.. then to flatten and save a preset out. BUT - like you say, IF one wants to return and just edit the morphed result.. hit "Stop" first (so no inside per instrument change is overriding anything).. and then edit away on the lower edit routine.

I am glad to say, testing that out, it worked. I could get to where your images show, and hit stop, then hit mute, and see the velocity curve remains in the lower edit state.

In the end, I guess it does make sense - but for sure, I could re-envisage the workflow perhaps.. and maybe the word "Stop" infers 'nothing can then change', which is why my brain avoided that work path.

Thanks again Maurizio, very much enjoyable to delve into a simple, yet interesting small aspect of the morph tool.. and also thanks for opening my eyes to the 'stop' button so we can facilitate late edits to the morphed result.

Probably a lot of people did know this.. or never came across it.. but it's all illuminating. Cheers to you!