Hi,
I've been listening to the key-off changes and noticed that the string sound changes with the speed I release the key, but the damper down sound doesn't.
Is this correct?
I've been trying this on the J. Salodiensis Virginal Original. I love the way the string is damped with the slow release (it's particularly noticeable on the lower notes), but the extra key mechanism noise doesn't change and I think it should with a slow release or is it my ears?
That's my understanding, DEZ.
On a physical piano, the dampers lift before the hammer is thrown, and then the hammer is out of contact with the mechanism once it reaches an 'escape velocity' (it escapes the escapement).
After hammer-strike, the dampers return as you release the key, but, unlike with the hammer-mechanism where the hammer 'escapes', the damper for each key is continuously controlled by that key. With this capacity, you can make the damper return quickly, slowly, partially, completely, or even cycle up and down depending upon how you control the key motion as you release the key with your finger. This is not modeled in Pianoteq, and would not be supported by the hardware of most keyboards (except for the ones that have continuous mechanical or laser/optical reading of each key's position).
So, in Pianoteq, if your sustain pedal is set to continuous, and your hardware sustain pedal supports continuous values, you can 'half-pedal' all the dampers at once. But on a real piano, you can individually 'half-pedal' each and every note - in Pianoteq you can not.
So, in Pianoteq, if your sustain pedal is set to continuous, and your hardware sustain pedal supports continuous values, you can 'half-pedal' all the dampers at once. But on a real piano, you can individually 'half-pedal' each and every note - in Pianoteq you can not.
Hi dklein, if your keyboard send a progressive noteoff you can "half pedal" each note, as DEZ said, but not the key noise I think.
@YvesTh: I know that I have struggled with my QRS PNOscan II in trying to get it to send more that the default note-off, to no avail, but I'm not sure that this would be like finger-pedaling, as the note-off command 'ends' the note. But finger-pedalling the key with variable damper return can make the note last almost as long as you want, or until either the damper squelches the note completely, or until the string just stops vibrating. Not the same, but it would sound close to having a configurable of note-off at a fixed mid-range.
I've been trying this on the J. Salodiensis Virginal Original. I love the way the string is damped with the slow release (it's particularly noticeable on the lower notes), but the extra key mechanism noise doesn't change and I think it should with a slow release or is it my ears?
I just tested J. Salodiensis Virginal Original to make sure, and the extra key mechanism noise does change with slow release: to make it more evident, compare the default preset with the one where you set the NOTE-OFF curve to:
Note-Off Velocity = [60; 20]
You can just copy the line above in the NOTE-OFF velocity panel (access to this panel: if the UI displays the VELOCITY panel, click on the small arrow on the right side of VELOCITY).
You will notice that the key release noise is quieter.
DEZ wrote:I've been trying this on the J. Salodiensis Virginal Original. I love the way the string is damped with the slow release (it's particularly noticeable on the lower notes), but the extra key mechanism noise doesn't change and I think it should with a slow release or is it my ears?
I just tested J. Salodiensis Virginal Original to make sure, and the extra key mechanism noise does change with slow release: to make it more evident, compare the default preset with the one where you set the NOTE-OFF curve to:
Note-Off Velocity = [60; 20]
You can just copy the line above in the NOTE-OFF velocity panel (access to this panel: if the UI displays the VELOCITY panel, click on the small arrow on the right side of VELOCITY).
You will notice that the key release noise is quieter.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but here's something for you to consider... I created a simple midi file with the note-offs altered and played it through Pianoteq - there is no discernable difference in the note release noise...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o095fio2239q...s.mp4?dl=0
I have put the midi file in the shard files section
Philippe Guillaume wrote:DEZ wrote:I've been trying this on the J. Salodiensis Virginal Original. I love the way the string is damped with the slow release (it's particularly noticeable on the lower notes), but the extra key mechanism noise doesn't change and I think it should with a slow release or is it my ears?
I just tested J. Salodiensis Virginal Original to make sure, and the extra key mechanism noise does change with slow release: to make it more evident, compare the default preset with the one where you set the NOTE-OFF curve to:
Note-Off Velocity = [60; 20]
You can just copy the line above in the NOTE-OFF velocity panel (access to this panel: if the UI displays the VELOCITY panel, click on the small arrow on the right side of VELOCITY).
You will notice that the key release noise is quieter.Thank you for taking the time to reply, but here's something for you to consider... I created a simple midi file with the note-offs altered and played it through Pianoteq - there is no discernable difference in the note release noise...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o095fio2239q...s.mp4?dl=0
I have put the midi file in the shard files section
Thank you DEZ for the files. In fact the level difference depends also on how long was the Note ON. If you play shorter notes, you will hear a more important difference when the Note Off velocity varies. The difference decreases on longer notes. This is due to a compromise made to take into account keyboards which send constant Note OFF messages.
BTW you can notice that directly with your MIDI file by playing it at velocity x3 (or x10).
Thank you DEZ for the files. In fact the level difference depends also on how long was the Note ON. If you play shorter notes, you will hear a more important difference when the Note Off velocity varies. The difference decreases on longer notes. This is due to a compromise made to take into account keyboards which send constant Note OFF messages.
BTW you can notice that directly with your MIDI file by playing it at velocity x3 (or x10).
Thanks I tried it with a fresh file with different note lengths and velocity offs and am happy to say I can definitely hear the different volumes of the note off noise. But that’s all that changes - it’s loudness or am I wrong ?
Philippe Guillaume wrote:Thank you DEZ for the files. In fact the level difference depends also on how long was the Note ON. If you play shorter notes, you will hear a more important difference when the Note Off velocity varies. The difference decreases on longer notes. This is due to a compromise made to take into account keyboards which send constant Note OFF messages.
BTW you can notice that directly with your MIDI file by playing it at velocity x3 (or x10).
Thanks I tried it with a fresh file with different note lengths and velocity offs and am happy to say I can definitely hear the different volumes of the note off noise. But that’s all that changes - it’s loudness or am I wrong ?
There are also changes in duration and delay, but they are rather subtle I find.