Topic by Olivier W

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Topic: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

Hi,

Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys.

In a real Piano , unisson Width is not the same on same key ? depend on how fast the Hammer move the strings ?

in FF or FFF the strings moves more and the unisson should be not the same at PPP ?

i've made an experiment :

With midi converter :
Note On velocity value -> Controller 62

and in midi settings PTQ : Controller 62 assigned to last note on Velocity Value with Unisson Wodth set 1 to 1.5.

It's not very polyphonic but the Piano becomes in life and repeated keys too


So it would be nice to have this features :

Piano Hammer Hardness Unisson Width parameter
Mezzo Hammer Hardness Unisson Width parameter
Forte Hammer Hardness Unisson Width parameter

3 Unisson Width parameters function of Piano /mezzo /forte

Same for Unisson Balance.

Or a polyphonic feature for each key to set Unisson Width value function of velocity level, in note edit.

just an idea.

Why not ?

Philippe ?

Regards,

Olivier F.

Reply by dazric

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

Interesting idea, and I like the reasoning behind it. Could you post a brief audio sample to demonstrate your experiment?

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

There's a 'Humanize' function for 'Unison width' - found by right-clicking the unison width slider.

I really do love the idea of adding perhaps greater weighting toward wider 'Humanize' numbers.. relating to the dot in the tool. If users sets it to X.. then the dot would go further right, when calculated for 'velocity'. Perhaps, the amount to calculate further widening of unison could be based on the overall "Dynamics" slider. If users set it low, then don't move that dot too far.. if users set dynamics higher, allow a range of wider unison matching when velocity is computed.

About "Unison Balance", it is able to be altered per string in Pro. But, it's a static number.. and adding minute 'beating' or something with velocity seems a great idea.

I'm not sure how much of that already goes on under the hood though.. but I always love to see deep user tools for those kinds of things.

Nice ideas Olivier W


@dazric - yes, I'd like to hear what experiments show too.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

On a real piano, when it is correctly tuned, the unison width does not depend on the velocity. The only moment where it may depend on the velocity is during tuning, when the tuner bangs on the key to stabilize the strings, so that precisely it does not move any more when the pianist himself will play fff. In fact, a unison width moving during a performance may be the sign of a poor tuning.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Olivier W

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

On a real piano, when it is correctly tuned, the unison width does not depend on the velocity. The only moment where it may depend on the velocity is during tuning, when the tuner bangs on the key to stabilize the strings, so that precisely it does not move any more when the pianist himself will play fff. In fact, a unison width moving during a performance may be the sign of a poor tuning.

thanks !

yes, in my old real SCHIMMEL, unisson are moving during performance ..... not well tuned.  It's a old 1989 bad 1m72 SCHIMMEL.

Now, new Schimmel are better than 199x area.

And some users like poor tuning... they say it's real when the piano is out of tune....

anyway, thanks for explanations, Philippe

Reply by DEZ

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

On a real piano, when it is correctly tuned, the unison width does not depend on the velocity. The only moment where it may depend on the velocity is during tuning, when the tuner bangs on the key to stabilize the strings, so that precisely it does not move any more when the pianist himself will play fff. In fact, a unison width moving during a performance may be the sign of a poor tuning.

if that's the case then maybe add it to the 'worn' slider? As a mere suggestion...

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Idea : Unisson Width or Balance depend on Velocity level on each keys

DEZ wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:

On a real piano, when it is correctly tuned, the unison width does not depend on the velocity. The only moment where it may depend on the velocity is during tuning, when the tuner bangs on the key to stabilize the strings, so that precisely it does not move any more when the pianist himself will play fff. In fact, a unison width moving during a performance may be the sign of a poor tuning.

if that's the case then maybe add it to the 'worn' slider? As a mere suggestion...

It makes sense. Note that in any case (worn or not), you can humanize the Unison width (right click on the slider and click on 'Humanize'). It is not exactly the same as it won't change with velocity but randomly, but the final result is not so far.

Philippe Guillaume's Website