Topic by Olivier W

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  • Olivier W
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Topic: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

Hi,

Hybrid piano YAMAHA N1X and Pianoteq routed in N1X internal speakers : just magical

But there is a bug With Yamaha Steinberg Driver 3.1.1 on mac (Windows, i don't know)

the USB AUDIO Steinberg Yamaha driver have strange audio saturation by default (+6dB) , you have to tweak the usb driver :
(Same problem with some latest clavinovas : audio saturation with USB audio)

By default in Mac configuration Audio midi :

https://i.ibb.co/7bFjRXp/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-02-10.png


you have to change by this to solve the saturation problem like this  :

https://i.ibb.co/zFNb6cm/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-19-a-16-42-52.png

And in Pianoteq select AVANTGRAND driver :

https://i.ibb.co/Z1wGtyQ/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-10-41.png

And midi Disklavier XP : (to monitor release N1X aftertouch for damper : work well in Pianoteq ) :

https://i.ibb.co/dmbYH5W/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-12-09.png


and Local midi OFF to stop N1X internal sound : function + C7

and try my .fxp preset for N1X speakers :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/cugm37wo


the feeling is incredible like a real piano

Regards,

Olivier F.

Last edited by Olivier W (20-06-2022 08:47)

Reply by Olivier W

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

New preset for YAMAHA N1X internal speakers :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/92bhf3gu

Last edited by Olivier W (21-06-2022 15:58)

Reply by Olivier W

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

New Steinway B, preset for YAMAHA N1X/N3X internal speakers :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/abp72gye

With this Preset and Yamaha N1X:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T54-4Xwh7Q

Last edited by Olivier W (22-06-2022 22:46)

Reply by Olivier W

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

new preset link :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/bh4uke6l

Last edited by Olivier W (25-06-2022 09:10)

Reply by alex928gt

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

Hi all,

I love Pianoteq and I'm also considering getting a N3X for its speaker system.

I understand that the USB link on N1X is ideal but what about the N3X link with Pianoteq?

Am I expected to use the line-in input on the N3X? If so, are the N3X internal speakers actually fed the right way by Pianoteq's sound?

Happy to hear about your experience

Thanks
Alex

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

Olivier W wrote:

Hi,

Hybrid piano YAMAHA N1X and Pianoteq routed in N1X internal speakers : just magical

But there is a bug With Yamaha Steinberg Driver 3.1.1 on mac (Windows, i don't know)

the USB AUDIO Steinberg Yamaha driver have strange audio saturation by default (+6dB) , you have to tweak the usb driver :
(Same problem with some latest clavinovas : audio saturation with USB audio)

By default in Mac configuration Audio midi :

https://i.ibb.co/7bFjRXp/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-02-10.png


you have to change by this to solve the saturation problem like this  :

https://i.ibb.co/zFNb6cm/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-19-a-16-42-52.png

And in Pianoteq select AVANTGRAND driver :

https://i.ibb.co/Z1wGtyQ/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-10-41.png

And midi Disklavier XP : (to monitor release N1X aftertouch for damper : work well in Pianoteq ) :

https://i.ibb.co/dmbYH5W/Capture-d-e-cran-2022-06-16-a-17-12-09.png


and Local midi OFF to stop N1X internal sound : function + C7

and try my .fxp preset for N1X speakers :

https://forum.modartt.com/file/cugm37wo


the feeling is incredible like a real piano

Regards,

Olivier F.

Thank you for sharing the workaround. Just curious about the issue and wonder is the root cause could possibly be a clocking issue. I had experienced similar issues with other audio drivers on external interfaces  and setting the internal sample rate on the mac to 48 Khz revolved it.
Not related :  In all case 48 Hkz sample rate and buffer size of 128 or 64 (if your mac is powerful enough) will optimise the latency as 11.7 ms is a bit on the high side with the default setting 44.1Hkz/512 samples .

Reply by Dave1747

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

I wonder if anyone might be able to give me some guidance on a sound problem when using loudspeakers with Pianoteq.

I am using Pianoteq 8 Pro with a new Acer laptop and an RME ADI-2 DAC.  After disappointment with very entry level equipment, I thought at least a premium DAC would tell me where the problem wasn’t.  The question is somewhat related to this thread as the equipment is set up under the lid of a Yamaha Grantouch II digital piano which I have owned for about 20 years.  The Yamaha action is still faultless.  I am absolutely stunned with the amazing sound quality of Pianoteq using my Sennheiser HD599 headphones.  It is a revelation which has drawn me, in retirement, to the keyboard at every available opportunity. 

Obviously there is no problem up to the DAC output so far as headphone performance is concerned.  For speakers, I routed the DAC unbalanced line-out to the Yamaha aux-input and turned down Yamaha’s internal sound to zero.  The sound through the internal speakers is then rather like an imaginary piano with a sort of tin soundboard.  There is a full sound presence, it is not thin but the sound quality is right off.  I have tried to describe that as well as I can, but it is hard to describe a sound.  I then bought a single Adam A8X speaker which was slashed in price when the line was discontinued.  Inputting L and R channels into a single input, the sound is very similar.  Using one channel only, it is just as bad. 

The totally different quality between headphones and speakers is puzzling.  I don’t have any technical knowledge and the Forum discussions are usually way above my head.  I have have read a previous thread where a member had success with Grantouch internal speakers and Oliver W seems to have had no trouble with sound quality using NIX internal speakers.  My next step would be to seek out some technical help, but I wonder if anyone reading this post might have a suggestion.

Reply by sharpnine

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

Dave1747 wrote:

The totally different quality between headphones and speakers is puzzling.  I don’t have any technical knowledge and the Forum discussions are usually way above my head.  I have have read a previous thread where a member had success with Grantouch internal speakers and Oliver W seems to have had no trouble with sound quality using NIX internal speakers.  My next step would be to seek out some technical help, but I wonder if anyone reading this post might have a suggestion.

Although your speakers are never going to sound as good as headphones (trust me, we've all been there) I am guessing your biggest problem is using a generated stereo piano through a single speaker. That won't sound good. If possible try one of the presets that does mono (mono in the name) or in your settings in the Microphone dropdown, choose monophonic. This should help substantially. I wouldn't run the two channels together (i.e. mix them in the one speaker). There are ways to combine stereo signals into mono, but it's more complicated than a simple mix that would happen in your powered speaker or amp.

Of course your by far best solution is to get a second (matched) speaker. Stereo sound is so much fuller and richer and will come much closer to the headphone sound, especially with good speaker placement and room acoustics.

Reply by Dave1747

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Re: YAMAHA N1X and PIANOTEQ

Thank you sharpnine for your suggestion of a pathway I might follow to solve the problem.  I tried a mono output setting on Pianoteq but got no noticeable improvement.  I had earlier tried one channel at a time on the Adam but it didn’t help.  Buying the single speaker was a mistake and I don’t want to compound it by investing further. 

Strangely the same tinny overtone dominated on both the Adam and on the Yamaha aux-input.  After reading what you had to say, I thought that perhaps the Adam was compromised by joining both channels in one, and the Yamaha was compromised by joining the external input with the muted internal input.  Who knows!  I don’t have the luxury of trying out different speakers so it’s a bit of a dead end. 

Anyway I’ve now gone in an entirely different unsatisfactory direction by setting up an entry level Naim amplifier with Epos speakers.  This time the tinny sound is not present but instead the sound is what I would call reedy.  A vast improvement is then achieved by blending the sound of the Yamaha Grantouch II through its own internal speakers along with Pianoteq through the Naim system.  The old Yamaha tone is a decent piano sound but lacks the richness of Pianoteq.  Combining the two seems to produce the best of both and scope for easy adjustment between them.  The cables are mostly out of sight so it looks good.  Not a proper solution but one that I can live with.

Thanks for your help

David