My sound is horrible, suggestions please!

Hello Tom,

I am having the same issue with cheap monitors (about 150€ both) I bought on amazon; I thought they would do the job, but no! not at all.
Now I am in the same situation than you, need buy new monitors. But I am more confident that the sound will actually be good because I tested listening to Pianoteq sound on my Hi-Fi system and it sounds really fantastic, even better than with headphones.
Just need to put the right amount of money in good monitors.
I was thinking of buying two PIONEER VM-70 (250€ each), but I am also open to any advice on what is best for Pianoteq.

Yes, good advice, but from what I read, the monitors are only a small part of the equation far behind room size, acoustic treatment of the room, and placement of the monitors. You can listen all you want at the stores, but they will most likely sound entirely different when taken home. I've gone to the music store and listened to what they have but to be honest, discerning significance differences that can be quantified is quite difficult. Listening in the big store space is going to sound quite different from a bedroom or apartment room. Considering monitors are supposed to be "neutral" there is quite a bit of difference between the brands and sizes. Obviously, bass suffers with smaller sized monitors and larger monitors appear physically much smaller in a big setting. With or without subwoofer? I've watched a lot of videos and the subject is quite technical with dozens of variables dependent upon the room and layout. I'm beginning to understand better why mixing is such a challenging and subjective activity. Trying to get a song that sounds good in headphones, in any room of the house, and in the car takes some skills. Throw in equipment variables and it gets a whole lot more challenging. And yet it is done, everyday by those expert in the field.

But to your original point, yes listening is very important even though it is colored by your own physiology and preferences. From what I gather the best way to set up a listening environment is with a calibrated reference mic and expensive audio software. But that ain't gonna happen in my case. Luckily, most vendors on Amazon allow free returns - as long as one doesn't abuse the privilege. At this second, I'm leaning towards the Yamaha HS7 or Kali LP6.

There is simply no substitute for good room treatment and good monitors. Brand wise, the common big names in 5 inch bass size I have been impressed with are Adam, Focal, and Eve. I currently use Focal EVO 50s in a partially treated room (acoustic panels) and Pianoteq sounds fantastic.

For your situation, EQ (if you have a good ear and experience) can help a great deal, but nothing compared to the room and the monitors.

Many of us have been on this quest. I solved mine when I found the ART RM5 powered monitors. It's been several years and I have not looked back Here is a link to more details from a previous post.:
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...52#p975552

Hi Yangyang,
Class D doesn't really mean a digital amplifier, it is a misnomer. Though this is common in advertising literature.
Class D amplifiers are electrically highly efficient and switch at very high speeds. They are another form of analogue amplifier. They need high quality filters to sound as good as classic class AB amplification.

Hypex make some good class D amplification.

The least efficient class of amplification is class A.
Class A is the least efficient and because the output devices are running all the time whether there is a signal or not, hence they waste a lot of electricity when you're not playing music and produce heat instead.

Class B added switching to the equation making amplifiers run cooler, however this added switching distortion to the signal.

Class AB was created to get the sound quality benefits of Class A at modest power levels with the efficiency of B. The vast majority of amplifiers are class AB, and can be exceptional quality or very ordinary.

Class D takes this switching to a very high speed and requires filtering to make a nice sound. Top quality class D can have distortion figures comparable to AB. A lot of the cheap stuff does not.

Most amplifiers have far lower distortion than loudspeakers. Speakers are the most important part of the equipment. The room is the most important element of all, assuming the loudspeakers are suitable for the room and setup correctly.

Glad that helped.

I use DIY hi-fi gear built some years ago so it's difficult to make a recommendation around that. I don't think pointing users at the Seas.no website is going to be of much help here. In answer to the question am I satisfied with the sound I will say very much so.

Your amplifier - 30KG is an absolute beast!!!

Information I found on those loudspeakers suggested they have mere 4 inch bass driver units. They are dirt cheap scraping the absolute bottom the market DJ speakers. Most headphones (even fairly bad ones) will sound better.
I suggest you may also need to carefully set up the velocity curve for your MIDI keyboard/digital piano in Pianoteq.

If you are trying to save money buy an old second-hand stereo amplifier and stereo passive loudspeakers off eBay or physical shops (if you've still got them close to you).
I'm thinking a couple of hundred pounds worth total here. Making sure that the drive units are in fully working condition. No crushed in tweeters, no damaged bass mid units.

Hi-fi models from a hi-fi manufacturers not a small class D Chinese amplifiers (which will be very hit and miss). 
I mean the kind of loudspeakers you will find old reviews from the likes of What Hi-fi, Hi-fi World etc. 

There are good class D amplifiers but the internet is awash with dirt cheap rubbish at the bottom of the market claiming to be good equipment. That's another lottery.

With a bit more money saved get some decent quality active loudspeakers for a few hundred more instead. Behringer Truth can be decent at the bottom of the market.

It is vital that your speakers are placed correctly. Make sure that you're not operating in a near empty room. You want curtains and carpet, furniture all sorts of household stuff in the listening room.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_b20...E6EALw_wcB
Behringer Truth are about £300 a pair new. Check to see if you have space for those.

I've seen used ones on eBay too. Perhaps proceed with caution with reputable sellers.

Thanks Qexl, some great points there.

I think the style of ones playing, and the choice of instrument is also part of the speaker situation, I only really play the Pianoteq Karsten Collection at the moment, these instruments are sometimes only three and a half octaves, so bass is not an issue here. The big grands though will require more bass, I would use a sub woofer in this case along with small optimally placed speakers.

The VPC1 curved top has always been an issue for my speaker setup. I tried studio monitors on stands, but this gave no vibration to the actual keyboard, and monitors placed on the keyboard (surface top) were too close and difficult to position. I eventually settled for small speakers on the keyboard with a slight up turn, similar to PC speakers in direction (up, towards the listener).

I have looked into surface mount speakers, the best, and most interesting is the Pioneer TS-X9 vintage car speakers, these look to be ideal on Youtube vids, but, they are highly collectable and very expensive. The Wharfedale Atmos speakers also look interesting (although too big for my requirements), these are designed to project the sound up to the ceiling, this might be good in simulating the grand piano lid sound?

I will keep with the Akai speakers, I really like them, but I like to look at different solutions, even if it gives just 1% improvement on the sound.

Nick

Actually that very much depends on the listening distance and volume requirements. Even in large rooms most of your listening is done in the first watt!
It also depends on how efficient the loudspeaker model is. Efficiency doesn't equal quality - those are separate things.

Dynamic peaks at high volume with loudspeakers in the mid and far-field require substantially more power.

There are online calculators to work out amplification requirements for given distance and expected sound pressure levels.  In the near-field it's not much for an average sensitivity system.

OTOH there are also high quality low efficiency systems that can benefit from substantially more power.

The range really is very substantial.

Try this.
Scroll down to "amplifier power required":
https://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

For our typical needs for higher levels (when you have the home to yourself)  I suggest this is going to be typically 86 dB for 1w sensitivity speakers with say 85 dB (high average) listening volume  with generous 10 dB headroom.
1 metre listening distance.

In practice that would be high levels. 85 dB + 10 dB headroom is serious domestic playback levels.

So 8 watts for peaks of 95 dB at 1 metre.

I dare say most play substantially quieter and the speakers are closer than a single metre. It's nice to have the headroom.

There are some  exotic and very high quality ultra low powered amplifiers out there for audiophiles. Generally those require very sensitive extremely large speakers if people are going to play at high volumes in typical lounge.

Equally there are amplifiers with hundreds of watts that are also high quality solutions. Typically in the studio tradition.

Amplifier power requirements went up as loudspeakers have got smaller. However in the near-field we don't require much power.

Small speakers are typically limited in terms of absolute power handling too.  There is only so far that you can throw a tiny cone in a linear fashion to make up for it's lack of air shifting diaphragm space.
Quality difference between the worst and the best can be quite dramatic.

There are some very high quality small bass mid drive units with surprising bass performance. 5.25" +.
You wont find these quality ones on entry level small monitors or hi-fi loudspeakers though.