Topic: Speakers/Monitors positioning

Hi,

I'm confiuring a new setup since I'm up to moving and I'll be playing with a slab piano (FP90X that I'll presumably buy).

I'll be needing a pair of decent monitors for both RD sounds as well as Pianoteq, I'm intending to be switching over between them depending on my mood, home use mainly.

I've been reading and the air outlet (bass reflex?) is apparently one of the main factors when it comes to locating the speakers next to the wall, whether the bass is going to come (too) directly if the openings are on the front of the monitors or whether there'll be some undesired reflections if the openings are on the back of the monitors...

I wonder if you guys have had any experiences in this regard, some advice will be helpful.

My first thoughts about how I'd be placing the monitors are the traditional way, me looking at the wall (1m away?) and the speakers facing towards me at that distance or whatever the sweet spot likes to be.

But I'm also considering to sit against the wall (with it my back) and having the monitors in front of me (1m?) facing towards the wall. A variation I've seen too is with the monitors next/behind me (while I'm looking opposite to the wall)..

Not sure any of this makes sense, but I wanted to share my "dilemma" and know what other users might have experimented.

Some advice on "best gang for the buck" suggestion for monitors will be welcome too.

Regards,
David

P85>Kawai CA97>Numa XGT>FP90X>LX706
Pianoteq 8 Pro (all instruments) + Organteq 2
i7 4790K W11 64bits + UMC1820 + MTM + DT770 pro X
http://youtube.com/DavidIzquierdoAzzouz

Re: Speakers/Monitors positioning

Hello David,

Here is what I have learned since I was 13 yeras old and until today, listening at friends, theirs speakers and how they are placed, talking to ”experts”, reading books, reading internet, testing at home a s o  (and I’m still not quite satisfied with my sound at home, but have to accept, living in a flat, so using mostly now headphones).

At first:
Even a good speaker sound can be ruined by a poor placement. The location has a very big impact on the sound. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and recommendations for speaker placement. There should always be a direct line of sight to the speaker from the listening position: if you can't see the speaker, you can't hear it well either. And position the speakers as symmetrically as possible in relation to the room and the listening position.

Speakers are the most important link in the audio chain in terms of sound quality.

The second most important link is the listening room. Depending on the acoustics of your room, even most of the sound we hear may be the “sound of the room,” that is, the sound reflected from its interfaces and the sum of the reflections of the speaker’s own sound. You should be able to compare the speakers in the store, but that’s not enough. The final choice of speakers should always be made at home. The speakers can and often do sound very different at home than in the listening room of a store. Ask if you can try at home, and if not, buy them and ask for returning them if not satisfied. If you can’t try them at home, or not return them, don’t buy them.

Try speakers close to the wall.
It is often recommended to place the speakers as far away from the walls as possible. However, if the speakers are placed far away - especially from the back wall - then this may make the room effortlessly (can't find word/waterly, lame....?  using google translate some places) hear the bass playing due to the so-called standing waves. So try to place the speakers primarily near the back wall. If the bass reproduction sounds too loud, you can lower its level by adjusting the tone of the amplifier. I have controls on my Presonus speakers and it helped a bit.

After many mistakes and wrong choices, I think my most important lesson have been this: The final choice of speakers should always be made at home.

Well, maybe you find something here - or not   

Best wishes,

Stig

Pianoteqenthusiast, Organteqenthusiast, Harpteqenthusiast, Harpsichordteqenthusiast, CP-80teqenthusiast and experimenter

Edit: part of this I learned from a Finnish writer Teppo Hirvikunnas

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (07-05-2022 17:27)

Re: Speakers/Monitors positioning

Pour moi écouter du piano ou jouer du piano sont des expériences extrêmement différentes.
Pour l'écoute, des enceintes hifi ou des moniteurs positionnés selon les règles seront une très bonne option.
Pour le jeu, je trouve ces solutions peu convaincantes.
Le meilleur pour moi est le jeu équipé d'un casque ouvert, c'est de cette façon que je ressent le plus le piano, je peux jouer des heures sans fatigue et j'arrive à croire que j'ai un vrai piano devant moi. J'ai essayé bien sur avec de moniteurs positionnés à hauteur des oreilles et à bonne distance, le son est bon mais à mon goût pas très réaliste. Du coup j'ai installé mes moniteurs juste au dessus de mon clavier posés sur des supports liés au socle du clavier. Le son est moins bon pour l'écoute sans doute mais je le trouve beaucoup plus réaliste pour le jeu, plus proche des touches et avec les vibrations dans le clavier.
Ceci ne vaut que pour mon expérience personnelle.

For me, listening to the piano or playing the piano are extremely different experiences.
For listening, hifi speakers or monitors positioned according to the rules will be a very good option.
For playing, I find these solutions unconvincing.
The best for me is playing with open headphones, this is the way I feel the piano the most, I can play for hours without fatigue and I can believe I have a real piano in front of me. I tried of course with monitors positioned at ear level and at a good distance, the sound is good but to my taste not very realistic. So I installed my monitors just above my keyboard on supports linked to the keyboard base. The sound is less good for listening but I find it much more realistic for the playing, closer to the keys and with the vibrations in the keyboard.
This is just my personal experience.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Re: Speakers/Monitors positioning

Thank you guys for the advice, I completely agree on the headphones thing, nothing beats them when it comes down to realism.

I guess I'll have to buy several models and try them out on site once settled, I'll play with angles and distances and see whether I can get some satisfying configuration.

Regards,
David

P85>Kawai CA97>Numa XGT>FP90X>LX706
Pianoteq 8 Pro (all instruments) + Organteq 2
i7 4790K W11 64bits + UMC1820 + MTM + DT770 pro X
http://youtube.com/DavidIzquierdoAzzouz

Re: Speakers/Monitors positioning

Hello again,

The listening room is very important.
In other words, we may even hear more room than the sound produced directly by the speaker. Most of the sound we hear can be the “sound of the room,” that is, the sound reflected from its interfaces and the sum of the reflections of the speaker’s own sound and the listening room.

The result is that you feel the sound is better with headphones (there is no room acoustics with headphones)

Almost everyone I know forget to do something about the acustics of the room, people only moving speakers.
The more sound-absorbing surfaces and materials in the room, the less sound is reflected to the listening position

I had a "music room" in another apartment and used very thick curtains, moved in a large soft sofa, a large soft bed, tapestry on the wall, thick carpets on the floor …… suddenly the sound of the speakers became fuller, softer -
a clear change for the better 
Best wishes,

Stig

Pianoteqenthusiast, Organteqenthusiast, Harpteqenthusiast, Harpsichordteqenthusiast, CP-80teqenthusiast and experimenter

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (08-05-2022 14:03)