Topic by Piotr Barcz

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Topic: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

I've been trying to use PIanoteq to make midi audio but the problem is, the midi files I make have the sustain pedal events ending and starting at the same time which makes the damper slur the released note aura. Is there a way I can mess with the damper curve to make the sound stop completely before the dampers go up again? The alternative would be to manually space the sustain pedal events or rerecord them with a sustain pedal, both of which I don't want to do...

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

Piotr Barcz wrote:

...the problem is, the midi files I make have the sustain pedal events ending and starting at the same time

Why is that? That would seem to be the root of the problem and the best place to fix it. What are you using to create MIDI files - software or export from a workstation keyboard or...?

Reply by Piotr Barcz

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

brundlefly wrote:
Piotr Barcz wrote:

...the problem is, the midi files I make have the sustain pedal events ending and starting at the same time

Why is that? That would seem to be the root of the problem and the best place to fix it. What are you using to create MIDI files - software or export from a workstation keyboard or...?

I'm using MuseScore. I would modify the pedal manually but it takes a long time, I don't know how much space to put because too much is going mess up the playback but too little and I get repeddling.

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

Piotr Barcz wrote:

I'm using MuseScore. I would modify the pedal manually but it takes a long time, I don't know how much space to put because too much is going mess up the playback but too little and I get repeddling.

You should definitely get some sort of MIDI controller that lets you record sustain controllers in real time. Or generate MIDI without pedals in Musescore and use some DAW software that provides better editing tools to add the CC64 sustain controllers (as a user of Cakewalk since v2.0 for DOS of course I recommend the free Cakewalk by Bandlab).

Typically a pedal down event (CC64=127) will occur just after the start of a measure (or chord change within a measure), and the next pedal up (CC64=0) will occur just before the next chord change by an interval of about an 8th note. In other words, the pedal is down most of the time and just released momentarily at each chord change.

P.S. Not sure about posting images here; preview is not displaying it inline, but here's an example:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvHuw7srYo1sjgar_QAZZcfAIQCg?e=BRtzpJ

Last edited by brundlefly (07-04-2022 19:32)

Reply by Piotr Barcz

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

brundlefly wrote:
Piotr Barcz wrote:

I'm using MuseScore. I would modify the pedal manually but it takes a long time, I don't know how much space to put because too much is going mess up the playback but too little and I get repeddling.

You should definitely get some sort of MIDI controller that lets you record sustain controllers in real time. Or generate MIDI without pedals in Musescore and use some DAW software that provides better editing tools to add the CC64 sustain controllers (as a user of Cakewalk since v2.0 for DOS of course I recommend the free Cakewalk by Bandlab).

Typically a pedal down event (CC64=127) will occur just after the start of a measure (or chord change within a measure), and the next pedal up (CC64=0) will occur just before the next chord change by an interval of about an 8th note. In other words, the pedal is down most of the time and just released momentarily at each chord change.

P.S. Not sure about posting images here; preview is not displaying it inline, but here's an example:

The problem is mostly I don't have the patience to record the sustain pedal manually. I have a midi modifying program that make gaps between notes but not the pedal...

I guess using my sustain pedal is the only option...

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvHuw7srYo1sjgar_QAZZcfAIQCg?e=BRtzpJ

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

Piotr Barcz wrote:

The problem is mostly I don't have the patience to record the sustain pedal manually. I have a midi modifying program that make gaps between notes but not the pedal...

I guess using my sustain pedal is the only option...

Funny, I find the opposite: I don't have the patience to make music with a mouse. ;^)

But Cakewalk could make pretty quick work of entering pedal events with strategic use of copy-paste. And it could also easily add space between the up/down events you already have in place.

In fact, if you were to send me the MIDI I wager I could fix it up for you in short order.

Reply by Piotr Barcz

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

brundlefly wrote:
Piotr Barcz wrote:

The problem is mostly I don't have the patience to record the sustain pedal manually. I have a midi modifying program that make gaps between notes but not the pedal...

I guess using my sustain pedal is the only option...

Funny, I find the opposite: I don't have the patience to make music with a mouse. ;^)

But Cakewalk could make pretty quick work of entering pedal events with strategic use of copy-paste. And it could also easily add space between the up/down events you already have in place.

In fact, if you were to send me the MIDI I wager I could fix it up for you in short order.

You're interested in helping me do the pedal edits? You're a legend to me now, thank you so much! Just drop me an email at thepiotrcorporation@gmail.com and I'll send you the files that I need edited!
(there's only a few that would need spacing, this is also needed because I want to make them playable on a Disklavier player piano that can space notes automatically but still needs the sustain pedal spaced out)

THANK YOU!!!

Reply by Piotr Barcz

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

Piotr Barcz wrote:
brundlefly wrote:
Piotr Barcz wrote:

The problem is mostly I don't have the patience to record the sustain pedal manually. I have a midi modifying program that make gaps between notes but not the pedal...

I guess using my sustain pedal is the only option...

Funny, I find the opposite: I don't have the patience to make music with a mouse. ;^)

But Cakewalk could make pretty quick work of entering pedal events with strategic use of copy-paste. And it could also easily add space between the up/down events you already have in place.

In fact, if you were to send me the MIDI I wager I could fix it up for you in short order.

You're interested in helping me do the pedal edits? You're a legend to me now, thank you so much! Just drop me an email at thepiotrcorporation@gmail.com and I'll send you the files that I need edited!
(there's only a few that would need spacing, this is also needed because I want to make them playable on a Disklavier player piano that can space notes automatically but still needs the sustain pedal spaced out)

THANK YOU!!!

And as a side note, the editing would basically be making the sure there is at least a quarter second gap between sustain pedal depressions. The shortest pedal interval can be no lower than a quarter second as well because the pedal on a player piano can't even press down that fast.

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: How to make sustain pedal not have half damper sound for midi files

Piotr Barcz wrote:

You're interested in helping me do the pedal edits?

Glad to help. E-mail sent.