Topic by pnArt

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Topic: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

I was trying to use a Pianoteq 7 Stage, Steinway Model D in a project in Cubase.  I set the equalization to Soft and the Sustain Pedal to 0.55 (you can set it to intermediate values between 0 and 1 by right-clicking).    When I saved and re-opened my project it remembered the Equalization setting but not the Sustain setting.   Then I tried a full sustain and it still didn't remember it, even though it remembers the EQ settings between saving the project and reopening it.

Not saving all the user's settings is a very serious bug so I wanted to give Pianoteq an opportunity to explain it or tell me what I'm doing wrong before I post this to the DAW forums I'm on.

Reply by Zumadale

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

I'd say pianoteq might not be for you.  Plenty of options out there!  Threatening to post on other forums to somehow get pianoteq to comply is an immature move at best.

Good luck to you.

Last edited by Zumadale (15-11-2021 04:37)
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Reply by pnArt

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

Zumadale wrote:

I'd say pianoteq might not be for you.

Maybe not but they have 140 USD of my money so I'm stuck with it and they're stuck with me.

Threatening to post on other forums to somehow get pianoteq to comply is an immature move at best.

It's not immature at all - it's just a statement of fact.   If the product has serious problems like this then I have an obligation to the rest of the producers/composers community to tell them.   But I want to be fair and give Pianoteq an opportunity to address this first.   How is that immature?

What's immature is your ad-hominem response instead of simply explaining the fix or workaround to the problem.

Reply by stamkorg

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:

I was trying to use a Pianoteq 7 Stage, Steinway Model D in a project in Cubase.  I set the equalization to Soft and the Sustain Pedal to 0.55 (you can set it to intermediate values between 0 and 1 by right-clicking).    When I saved and re-opened my project it remembered the Equalization setting but not the Sustain setting.   Then I tried a full sustain and it still didn't remember it, even though it remembers the EQ settings between saving the project and reopening it.

Not saving all the user's settings is a very serious bug so I wanted to give Pianoteq an opportunity to explain it or tell me what I'm doing wrong before I post this to the DAW forums I'm on.

The sustain pedal is a realtime controler. Its value is a playing state. It is not a parameter that can be saved as a preset or in a DAW. It is like asking to Pianoteq to save some depressed keys. That doesn't make sense IMO.

Now, if you want the sustain pedal always at 55%, you can change the factory pedal curve to an horizontal line at the same value from 0 to 127. But what do you want to do with that?

Last edited by stamkorg (15-11-2021 19:45)

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:

I was trying to use a Pianoteq 7 Stage, Steinway Model D in a project in Cubase.  I set the equalization to Soft and the Sustain Pedal to 0.55 (you can set it to intermediate values between 0 and 1 by right-clicking).    When I saved and re-opened my project it remembered the Equalization setting but not the Sustain setting.   Then I tried a full sustain and it still didn't remember it, even though it remembers the EQ settings between saving the project and reopening it.

Not saving all the user's settings is a very serious bug so I wanted to give Pianoteq an opportunity to explain it or tell me what I'm doing wrong before I post this to the DAW forums I'm on.

I am not sure to understand your problem: sustain pedal value is not a user setting saved as parameter in a project or a preset, it is a MIDI value. It is like playing middle C mezzo forte, for example at velocity = 75. This velocity is not saved as user setting neither. The usual place where such data is stored (sustain pedal value, Note On velocity, Note Off velocity, etc.) is in a MIDI file. But maybe I misunderstood your problem.

PS. Ha, I see stamkorg replied the same thing while I was writing... I was too slow

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Reply by pnArt

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

stamkorg wrote:

The sustain pedal is a realtime controler. Its value is a playing state. It is not a parameter that can be saved as a preset or in a DAW. It is like asking to Pianoteq to save some depressed keys. That doesn't make sense IMO.

No it's not like a depressed key.   If you depress a key it doesn't stay depressed as long as the project is open.     If I set the Sustain pedal to 0.55 it stays at 0.55 until I close the project or open a new one.    It functions like any other effect or equalization - it gives the piano a particular sound the musician wants.   The only reason it's not being saved like EQ or Mallet Bounce or other effects is because someone forgot. 

Now, if you want the sustain pedal always at 55%, you can change the factory pedal curve to an horizontal line at the same value from 0 to 127. But what do you want to do with that?

I like the way it sounds.   The notes trail off more slowly rather than ending abruptly.   If Pianoteq had an ADSR control it's similar to adjusting the "R".   So how do I change the factory pedal curve as you suggest?

Reply by stamkorg

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:
stamkorg wrote:

The sustain pedal is a realtime controler. Its value is a playing state. It is not a parameter that can be saved as a preset or in a DAW. It is like asking to Pianoteq to save some depressed keys. That doesn't make sense IMO.

No it's not like a depressed key.   If you depress a key it doesn't stay depressed as long as the project is open.     If I set the Sustain pedal to 0.55 it stays at 0.55 until I close the project or open a new one.    It functions like any other effect or equalization - it gives the piano a particular sound the musician wants.   The only reason it's not being saved like EQ or Mallet Bounce or other effects is because someone forgot. 

Now, if you want the sustain pedal always at 55%, you can change the factory pedal curve to an horizontal line at the same value from 0 to 127. But what do you want to do with that?

I like the way it sounds.   The notes trail off more slowly rather than ending abruptly.   If Pianoteq had an ADSR control it's similar to adjusting the "R".   So how do I change the factory pedal curve as you suggest?

Hmm,
I see your point of view.
In fact since that setting exists, it could be made to act as the other parameters. Why not...
That's for the Pianoteq team.

For the pedal curve, you go in the velocity curve window and you shift to the other curves (note off, aftertouch and pedal)

Reply by hesitz

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:
stamkorg wrote:

The sustain pedal is a realtime controler. Its value is a playing state. It is not a parameter that can be saved as a preset or in a DAW. It is like asking to Pianoteq to save some depressed keys. That doesn't make sense IMO.

No it's not like a depressed key.   If you depress a key it doesn't stay depressed as long as the project is open.     If I set the Sustain pedal to 0.55 it stays at 0.55 until I close the project or open a new one.    It functions like any other effect or equalization - it gives the piano a particular sound the musician wants.   The only reason it's not being saved like EQ or Mallet Bounce or other effects is because someone forgot.

I suspect it's not because someone forgot, but because someone thought it wasn't a parameter that should be saved.  The 'Sustain Pedal' parameter is not like the other parameters that are getting saved, since the 'Sustain Pedal' parameter is intended to be one that's dynamically controlled by a sustain pedal.  (Imagine that.) 

Sure, Pteq could be changed to persist the 'Sustain Pedal' parameter.  If you want it, ask Pianoteq to do it.  I doubt that they will, but I don't know, maybe check with other Piano VST's and see if they persist the 'Sustain Pedal' parameter.  If all of them do, maybe Pianoteq will change their minds.  I would refrain from suggesting that Pianoteq has a bug, or that they "forgot" to do something.  'Sustain pedal' parameter, in most cases, is controlled by a sustain pedal, despite the fact that Pianoteq supports strange uses by allowing you to fix it at a certain value.

Last edited by hesitz (15-11-2021 23:30)

Reply by larrycalame

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

might the solution be to add a midi controller 64 event at the outset of your project file?

Reply by etalmor

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:

I was trying to use a Pianoteq 7 Stage, Steinway Model D in a project in Cubase.  I set the equalization to Soft and the Sustain Pedal to 0.55 (you can set it to intermediate values between 0 and 1 by right-clicking).    When I saved and re-opened my project it remembered the Equalization setting but not the Sustain setting.   Then I tried a full sustain and it still didn't remember it, even though it remembers the EQ settings between saving the project and reopening it.

Not saving all the user's settings is a very serious bug so I wanted to give Pianoteq an opportunity to explain it or tell me what I'm doing wrong before I post this to the DAW forums I'm on.

First of all - to your question: you might want to try "Action/damping duration" instead - which is a parameter.
Traditionally sustain pedals, pitch bend, modulation, volume control, breath control, and a host of other controllers are not considered VSTi parameters as they have natural physical controls that map to them. I don't know any VSTi where these are considered parameters.
So I don't consider this a bug. But you may have a different POV, fine.

That said - almost all software have bugs: Google's, Microsoft's, Apple's. As a customer, when I find a bug I report it to the SW vendor. That's the expected relationship between vendor and customer. In the past I reported one or two bugs to Modartt. They were extremely helpful and responsive. Modartt, from a customer service and product point of view (and heck, almost any other aspect), are as good as it gets. The user forum is awesome too - very nice community.

So really, no need to threaten them, nor anyone else. And if you really feel the need to post on the DAW forums where you are a member of, that PTQ don't save the damper pedal parameter, go ahead. I think you'll find this is the norm in VSTi-s.

Last edited by etalmor (16-11-2021 15:38)
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Reply by hesitz

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:

. . . .  simply explaining the fix or workaround to the problem.

There are several workarounds mentioned above that may work fine.  However, I think there's another method to persist sustain the way you want is probably easier. 

You can modify the 'Pedal' response curve (one of the charts that's in same spot as 'Velocity Curve') and that response curve will be saved with your Preset settings.  I believe the default is that Pedal response curve is set to connect to your sustain pedal (even if you don't actually have a sustain pedal).  Adjust the curve so it is a flat line all the way across at whatever level of sustain you want.  So, e.g., if you want Sustain Pedal at 64 (half of full depress) you would adjust the 'Pedal' curve so it is a flat line halfway up the left axis in the response curve box.  For 50, you would make it a flat line slightly lower down than that.  (Technically, I don't think you need a flat line all the way across, I'm pretty sure it's just the value at the extreme left side -- 0 on x-axis -- that you need to change.)

Reply by georg

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

wouldn't an automation track fix your issue?

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Pianoteq 7 not saving all parameters!

pnArt wrote:

If I set the Sustain pedal to 0.55 it stays at 0.55 until I close the project or open a new one.

--Or until you press the sustain pedal on your MIDI keyboard while Pianoteq is running, which will cause Pianoteq's sustain pedal to match the MIDI value transmitted by your keyboard. This is because the sustain pedal is a real-time controller, which is a good reason that its value, if set in the Pianoteq GUI, is not and probably logically should not be saved between sessions or within a custom preset.

As others have mentioned, you can achieve the same effect by setting the pedal's response curve to match the value you would like the sustain pedal to remain at (regardless of which MIDI value is transmitted by the pedal attached to your MIDI keyboard), and then save that instrument, with the edited pedal curve, as a personal custom preset.

-- -- --

https://imgur.com/lwuJlb4.png

-- -- --

Being able, for immediate or temporary purposes, to edit the sustain pedal's value by right-clicking on the pedal in the Pianoteq GUI is an extra feature, not a bug. Are you aware of another virtual piano instrument that does allow one to set the value of the sustain pedal, and then save that value into a custom preset for recall later?

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (18-11-2021 19:06)
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