Topic: Organteq with Dorico

After a bunch of experimenting, I was able to create an expression map that properly triggers stops and manual changes in Dorico!

Video

More details on the Dorico forum

Re: Organteq with Dorico

JesterMusician wrote:

After a bunch of experimenting, I was able to create an expression map that properly triggers stops and manual changes in Dorico!

What an interesting project and accomplishment. The score looks and sounds great.

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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Organteq with Dorico

Hello
For using Dorico for Organteq like in your very good video,
Is it necessary to have Dorico PRO ?
Or Dorico Elements is OK to use your files in ptm, dorico and doricolib format ?

Thanks a lot

Patrick

Re: Organteq with Dorico

Patrick,

Thank-you for nudging this interesting thread forward, as I hadn't read as far back as this in the Forum, as yet. As it raised a whole load of interesting possibilities and ideas, I went off to read about Dorico, only to discover that it did not run natively on Linux; a disappointment I am resigned to. There is, however, an interesting thread on the Dorico Forum about if/when the application will be ported to Linux, whether they should bother doing so, and can you run it under Wine

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/dorico-o...127533/137

At the end of the discussion,  the user snakeeyes021 does demonstrate a method of running Dorico through Wine, but it seems to be a rather more complicated solution to the question than I required.

As a back of an envelope calculation, one could configure each of the stop change settings to a different combination button. Each combination button could then be assigned to a different midi event, thus allowing you to quickly change your stop settings, whilst re-playing a midi file, by pressing a single key. Now, if I remember correctly, you can edit a midi file, through Reaper, for instance, to include midi control events on the score, which would mean that, when re-playing the midi file, the score would pass the midi event through to Organteq and thus change the combination button and hence the stops pulled. The stop changes could be written onto the score as text to help explain what was happening and the midi command listed as a text item, Cn, to indicate the change of combination.

I'm sure that it is not going to prove to be quite as straight forward as the above sequence of steps would suggest, nor as elegant a solution as JesterMusician proposed. However, it does give me something more to experiment with in the early hours, when I should be sleeping.

Michael

Pianoteq 8 Studio plus all Instrument packs; Organteq 2; Debian; Reaper; Carla

Re: Organteq with Dorico

mprimrose wrote:

Patrick,
Thank-you for nudging this interesting thread forward, as I hadn't read as far back as this in the Forum, as yet. As it raised a whole load of interesting possibilities and ideas, I went off to read about Dorico, only to discover that it did not run natively on Linux ...

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Is Dorico much better than MuseScore, a full-featured, very capable music notation editor which runs great in Linux?

MuseScore
https://musescore.org/en
https://musescore.com/

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (23-10-2021 15:32)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Organteq with Dorico

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

[
Is Dorico much better than MuseScore, a full-featured, very capable music notation editor which runs great in Linux?

MuseScore
https://musescore.org/en
https://musescore.com/

Stephen,

I suppose the simplest answer is that I have no idea which is the better notation editor, as I can't run Dorico on my Linux system, therefore I cannot make a comparison between the two applications. I have Musescore running on my DAW although I haven't played with it enough to make it jump through my required hoops with any great facility.

As I can't compose for, but rather re-create music in Organteq I am mainly interested in manipulating midi files to give me greater control over the final performance. For instance, one might look at separating out the various voices of a fugue onto different staves, so that each stave can be assigned a different midi channel and to a different manual, when playing in the four keyboard mode.

I tend to use the now unsupported NtEd to import the midi file and then to manipulate the subsequent score. It allows you to independently manipulate the midi values for each stave ie channel, tempo, chorus, reverb, transport, volume and pan, as well as the program number of the instrument. The changed music score is then exported as a new midi file and can be then loaded in Organteq and be played with the new settings.

Unfortunately, NtEd does have its limitations, which is understandable given its age, but it does what I need it to do very quickly and efficiently and one cannot ask for more I suppose. If I want to be creative and start embedding combination changes into the midi score, then I am probably going to have to vanish into the thickets of Reaper for a while to achieve it.

Working out how to change individual stops or manuals, on the fly, with embedded midi commands, which is what this thread was originally about, until I went off track, is a more complex problem than I really want to get lost in at the moment. However, one never knows when the eureka moment may strike now the problem is implanted in the back of my head.

Michael

Pianoteq 8 Studio plus all Instrument packs; Organteq 2; Debian; Reaper; Carla

Re: Organteq with Dorico

mprimrose wrote:

As I can't compose for, but rather re-create music in Organteq I am mainly interested in manipulating midi files to give me greater control over the final performance. For instance, one might look at separating out the various voices of a fugue onto different staves, so that each stave can be assigned a different midi channel and to a different manual, when playing in the four keyboard mode.

I tend to use the now unsupported NtEd to import the midi file and then to manipulate the subsequent score. It allows you to independently manipulate the midi values for each stave ie channel, tempo, chorus, reverb, transport, volume and pan, as well as the program number of the instrument. The changed music score is then exported as a new midi file and can be then loaded in Organteq and be played with the new settings. ...

Working out how to change individual stops or manuals, on the fly, with embedded midi commands, which is what this thread was originally about, until I went off track, is a more complex problem than I really want to get lost in at the moment. However, one never knows when the eureka moment may strike now the problem is implanted in the back of my head.

Michael

Interesting. I wonder if the MIDI editing capabilities of Qtractor or Ardour (or Harrison Mixbus) in Linux would perhaps be handy for these goals, as will as Organteq's MIDI mapping facility, to map program changes inserted into a MIDI file to operate stops or combinations within Organteq. Very interesting idea and project.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (24-10-2021 11:48)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Organteq with Dorico

Very nice idea and project. There is only one drawback to this - it's the music from the machine. You can hear and feel that it is not a human playing.

Last edited by rumburak (24-10-2021 12:22)

Re: Organteq with Dorico

I agree that replaying a midi file in Organteq will usually be too perfectly mechanical to sound like a realistic performance, but I am not looking to re-create the "homo ex mechina" in my DAW. Such experiments have a horrible history of turning on their creator and I don’t want to end up being fatally fugued in the ante-penultimate scene.

However as an intellectual exercise I think it is rather interesting and, as I have spent years teaching software to jump through burning hoops of my own designing, this project will have more than enough challenges to keep me gainfully out of mischief for some time.

Michael

Pianoteq 8 Studio plus all Instrument packs; Organteq 2; Debian; Reaper; Carla

Re: Organteq with Dorico

mprimrose wrote:

I agree that replaying a midi file in Organteq will usually be too perfectly mechanical to sound like a realistic performance, but...
Michael

The MIDI file can be edited so that it gives the impression of a human game.
But it takes a lot of manual work on the computer.
You would have to edit almost every note, because the human never plays evenly.