Topic: Janko keyboard
Does anyone know this weird keyboard ?
- Gaston
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- Borealis
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Re: Janko keyboard
First time I see this. Thanks for the discovery.
And on YT, there are some other weird keyboards... Would be cool if we could try them.
- budo
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- georg
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Re: Janko keyboard
thanks for sharing, i never knew there are other keyboard layouts...
i then came across this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb_TQpwam54
and finally i found an available midi controller:
https://www.lumatone.io
- Key Fumbler
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Re: Janko keyboard
Gaston wrote:
Does anyone know this weird keyboard ?
Wow, frankly that layout actually looks like it could be better than a normal keyboard - and it doesn't look weird either. Thanks for sharing that.
- Defenz0r
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Re: Janko keyboard
Key Fumbler wrote:
Gaston wrote:Does anyone know this weird keyboard ?
Wow, frankly that layout actually looks like it could be better than a normal keyboard - and it doesn't look weird either. Thanks for sharing that.
The lack of visual and sensory difference makes a Janko Layout more difficult to navigate.
Also, there are less people teaching for it. Much less.
It will be theoretically a lot more beneficial, because it doesn't require large hands.
- Gaston
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Re: Janko keyboard
Actually it's much older than I thought : 1882 !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jank%C3%B3_keyboard
And the basic principle is comparable to an accordion keyboard with its rows of buttons.
Last edited by Gaston (29-08-2021 20:32)
- Key Fumbler
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Re: Janko keyboard
Defenz0r wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:Gaston wrote:Does anyone know this weird keyboard ?
Wow, frankly that layout actually looks like it could be better than a normal keyboard - and it doesn't look weird either. Thanks for sharing that.
The lack of visual and sensory difference makes a Janko Layout more difficult to navigate.
Also, there are less people teaching for it. Much less.
It will be theoretically a lot more beneficial, because it doesn't require large hands.
I wasn't arguing for the retirement of the classic key layout. I haven't done extensive research or anything, just my immediate reaction to the key layout in the video.
That said I expect youngsters brains could adjust quite easily to the different layout, and indeed the physical stress on the hands (especially smaller hands or old arthritic ones) was foremost in my mind.
It would be silly to teach this instead of a normal keyboard.
- EvilDragon
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Re: Janko keyboard
Finally a keyboard on which anyone could play Rachmaninoff!
Hard work and guts!
- NathanShirley
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Re: Janko keyboard
EvilDragon wrote:
Finally a keyboard on which anyone could play Rachmaninoff!
Ha, yes playing those massive chords would be easier for people with smaller hands, but just wait until they attempt those lightening fast arpeggios!
It's interesting though, I do think with enough practice navigating the keyboard would be easier in many ways. There would be some challenges though. Deciding which keyboard/keyboard-combination to use for a given passage/chord would have to be calculated carefully, and could get fairly complex. It would also likely vary based on an individual's anatomy, to an extent. Of course there are similar challenges with a standard keyboard too, so it could be that the advantages with the Janko system would outweigh the disadvantages. Certainly the chromatic/symmetrical aspect of the layout would have enormous benefits.
I've seen a few alternate keyboard layouts, including a modified Janko (mainly similar to the 'Terpstra' and 'Lumatone' style). At the time I dismissed them because the more button-like the keys become, the less you would be able to play "pianistic" music. Bach? Maybe. Chopin or Rachmaninov? Forget about it. But with longer keys, with a lever-style grand piano mass to the keys...I think Jankó was really onto something. Too bad history didn't align for him.
There are several videos of pianist Detlef Graul demonstrating the Janko piano. In this video he explains some of the mechanical obstacles (which sound similar to square grand mechanical problems). With Pianoteq and a good pianist-centric Janko controller (likely doesn't exist), those mechanical problems wouldn't be an issue.
- Defenz0r
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Re: Janko keyboard
The Janko Layout probably won't be a thing anytime soon.
However, there are manufacturers who I know that would produce a Janko MIDI controller or Retrofit an grand.
- olepro
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Re: Janko keyboard
Isn't it something like the Accordion layout ?
- Defenz0r
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Re: Janko keyboard
olepro wrote:
Isn't it something like the Accordion layout ?
Yea, kinda. It's also similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomorphic_keyboard .
I am certain those alternative layouts are inferior. You can find the deepest discussions on this on the internet with other different thoughts.
We all have different wide fingers, length and so on. The classical action can be used very 'ballistically', there are several problems with the different layouts to play actual Piano on it.
I think even the rectangular shape of the classical piano keys gives benefits in sensing properly.
But all those subtleties aside, why would you want to have one as a replacement for the 'old' fashioned Piano?
It's certainly more difficult to find literature on or help.
- NathanShirley
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Re: Janko keyboard
The video Georg posted explains the different "common" layouts well.
Obviously since the Janko system didn't catch on 100 years ago, it's not going to anytime soon. But it's still a great concept. I think the tactile ambiguity could be overcome with some experimentation on making the black keys feel a bit different. Perhaps a different textured surface and/or a slightly different contour. Personally I think slightly larger keys would be better, but I'd have to try playing one.
I think the biggest challenge is that it would make standard diatonic fingerings more complex. Certainly for "simple" keys at least. There would be a lot more options, all with their pros and cons, some suited to larger hands, some to smaller, and some better depending on the length ratios between different fingers. That also means that as a child grew, they would probably need to learn a completely different fingering system...for everything. Of course once any given fingering system was learned, it would make playing a lot of tonally complex music far easier (in theory). Since a standard keyboard is optimized for diatonic music, it makes learning music in simple keys very easy. Teaching a kid a simple C major scale or even anything in a "5 finger position" would be far more complicated on a janko. Now if they loved whole-tone music it would be a piece of cake! But then teaching them to read simple music of any kind would be much more difficult (unless you developed a new system of notation). Perhaps transitioning students in their teens from the standard keyboard layout to a janko once their hands had grown could work...
So yes, lots of major obstacles even in the best circumstances. But still, there's so much potential. It's too bad Jankó didn't live 100 years earlier than he did, back when something like this could have gotten more attention and evolved into something even better. By the late 1800's Western instruments had become very much standardized, so even if his workshop hadn't burned, it might not have changed much in the long run.