Topic: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

tl;dr: I'm new to Pianoteq (I plan to buy v7 Standard), and I'd love some advice to help me narrow down my choice of 3 pianos; thanks in advance!

Hi there,

I'm a classical & jazz pianist by background / hobby, but I also dabble in miscellaneous composing & arranging for fun in many genres.  You could say I'm, er, unfocused I guess .

And the moment, I'm also stymied. Overwhelmed by choice!  I already have some great piano VSTs to play on my Native Instruments Komplete S88 and Roland LX-17 keyboards*, but I've been really impressed by Pianoteq's playability (especially with pedaling and half-pedaling!)... and the recent sale has convinced me to take the plunge.

But... which pianos to choose?  I mean, at least I've narrowed it down to *pianos* (despite the inclusion of other cool instruments).

I've listened to the jazz demo, and it sounds reasonably good to great on all the pianos it seems.  And when I noodle around myself, well, I guess it varies by genre and velocity range as to how I feel.  The only one I'm definitely settled on so far is the NY Steinway (even though I have other Steinway VSTs). 

QUESTIONS:

1) Are there certain pianos which *audibly* take advantage of new features or capabilities in Pianoteq 7?  I'm not so interested in tweakability because I'm impatient and there are already so many handy default presets .

2) Aside from just continuing to spend time noodling around with the Pianoteq trial version, are there other factors I should be considering that might help me choose (e.g., some pianos being more versatile across genres or, conversely, having some limitations, etc.)

Thanks much for your help!

*In case you're curious, here are the other piano VSTs I have (from the Komplete 13 Ultimate bundle):
- Alicia's Keys
- Grandeur
- Noire
- Giant
- Gentleman
- Una Corda
- Maverick

and also

- Signature Grand (Steinway, by Simple Sam Samples; this admirably punches above its ~$50 cost!)

Last edited by ThatAdamGuy (11-08-2021 08:44)

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

It's a tough choice. If you want absolute bang for buck (the most models) I suggest the following:

The New York D is part of a pack with the Hamburg D. The vast majority of concert hall pianos are Steinway, so yes a no brainer, especially now it's a pack.
The Ant.Petrof was joined by the Mistral as a pack too. So if you buy the Petrol pack with the D pack that's four piano models for the price of two, but that's me forgetting you now get three packs with Standard.   

The Vintage Tines pack is three pianos, if you like the electrics?


Not forgetting you can download this entire collection for free:
https://www.modartt.com/kivir

So you get the Errard and Pleyel pianos which also benefit from seventh generation Pianoteq. So you would have six grand pianos straight away. The latter two with a more characterful, imperfect sound. The Pleyel perhaps closest to a large upright in character, before you pick up U4 (but you could also pick that up in the current sale along with your third piano).
The free pack also has the CP80 for a classic late 70s, early 80s sound.   So seven highly usable pianos for Jazz, Rock and pop, along with the fine historic piano models, which are more of a niche interest.
https://www.modartt.com/cp-80
Play the CP80 enough you'll probably hanker after the Rhodes sound too. So maybe get Vintage Tines with the Rhodes and Wurly models in a single pack?

However, you could find yourself drawn more to any of the other modern pianos,  and something that actually inspires you to play more is ultimately the best value, so your mileage will almost certainly vary. For instance the K isn't even based on any one single real world piano and sounds great.

Better advice is to just suggest you play with all the models and decide for yourself. I don't think that it is helpful to look for the most technically advanced model, it seems bogus to me. Go for the ones that sound the best to your ears, or perhaps those that give you the most variety in tonality.
All the models benefit from the latest version updates anyway.

Last edited by Key Fumbler (11-08-2021 13:16)

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Hi, I recently purchased Pianoteq Standard too. After playing for almost a week with the posibilities Pianoteq offers, I've chosen the Steinway D (2 pianos in it) the Ant.Petrof pack (another 2) and the Grotrian.

The new Petrof Mistral sounds good in a mix, very clear without being harsh in the highs. The Jazz Recording preset is wonderful to start. I changed only 3 things and is very playable and believable (toned down the Synpathetic resonance to 0.7, and Effects changed reverb to Jazz Studio and tune the low gain settings on the EQ from +2 to +4).

The only one I'm having second thoughts is the Grotrian but, judging some demos out there, I think it has some potential to find the correct tinkering.

Best regards

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Good advice above. It's indeed a tough choice. As for question number one, I'm afraid that's all of them. But the other question might be more enlightening.



What I did is, with the trial versions installed I just played through all of the candidates, spending only a few minutes on each. I then simply chose the ones that had a "love at first sight" quality to that very brief first encounter.

I don't think that's the only good way to do it. But knowing myself, I figured I was best served by making a quick, intuitive decision. I have no regrets about the decisions I made.



You say you only want Pianos, does that mean only acoustic pianos? If you're open to the electric ones, I can also second the Vintage Tines recommendation above. I have never played a Rhodes or Wurly emulation that is this satisfying. Every real Rhodes I've ever played has differences between the keys, and regrettably most emulations smooth those out. PianoTeq strikes a better balance with that, in my opinion, many of the presets feel very genuine to play.

I have the Hohner Electric pianos also. They're a little weirder, and I find myself dialing them in to get even weirder most of the time. The Tines are definitely better suited for most genres, the way they sound out-of-the-box. Since you're a jazz player I guess these might come in handy? Or if they won't, plenty other good options exist.

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

One more thing to consider, while all the piano models can easily be adjustable for different degrees of brightness, some of them benefit from being dialed in bright more than others. Also vice versa, some of them sound better with a darker tone dialed in. You say you don't want to spend much time fiddling with parameters, but I think you'll find just a little adjusting of brightness can be very rewarding. It's one of the places where PianoTeq *really* shines IMO, in sample-based piano plugs we use EQ for this, and it's not nearly as convincing.

I feel like all the Steinways sound good bright, so if you know you want the NY, maybe consider complementing it with a model that sounds good dark.

It's all a matter of taste, so definitely test things out and make your own choice. Load up a "player" style preset on each piano you're considering, and just dial back all the hammer hardnesses. Maybe turn the Q factor up and the Cutoff down too. Overdo it just a little, it's illuminating. Does the sound get uninteresting to you with less highs? Keep looking.

When I did this, the one that really stood out to me was the Grand Grotrian, the Petrof and SteinGraeber being close seconds. But your tastes may be different! Give it a spin and find out what you like.

Good luck, and enjoy!

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

I am also about to pull the trigger on PTQ7.

For classical pieces, I agree that the Steinway D concert grand piano collection is the way to go.

For jazz, it seems to me that a brighter piano would be appropriate. The Steinway B is a great choice. Although it still has a big sound, it does have a more intimate feel. My personal experience by playing the B is that it also has a fun touch response/playability that translates well to jazz. By the way, the real Steinway B seems to be favored by jazz pianists and it is THE piano of choice at the Jazz Standard club in NYC.

The third piano should be your own personal choice. Do you want a piano more inclined toward classical music or toward jazz? From various sessions of testing and playing, the sound of the Grotrian Grand really captivates me due to its remarkable sympathetic resonances. But I am more into learning and playing classical music.

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Are there certain pianos which *audibly* take advantage of new features or capabilities in Pianoteq 7?  I'm not so interested in tweakability because I'm impatient and there are already so many handy default presets

The biggest new feature would be layering and morphing.  With that in mind mixing piano becomes a really nice feature that is easy without a DAW.  I'd suggest pianos that cover different tones for that reason.

The NY Steinway (which includes the HB Steinway) is a no brainer.

For jazz I'd suggest looking at the Bluthner as well.

The K2 now sounds very good and I'd take a really close look (listen) at this as I think it's neglected by many people.  It's not got a mainstream name attached but it is a great sound.  Earlier versions had issues (IMO) but it is now lovely.

You might consider the Klemsegg 2 collection which has four instruments including the 1899 Bechstein and a the Frenzel.

Note you also get for free two grands from the 1920's (Pleyel and Erard) and several other instruments.  Don't neglect these as they will have uses.  Ever since I heard Erroll Garner use a harpsichord on a Jazz album I've tried to think outside the usual piano box (and you'll get a free harpsichord with it).

Aside from just continuing to spend time noodling around with the Pianoteq trial version, are there other factors I should be considering that might help me choose (e.g., some pianos being more versatile across genres or, conversely, having some limitations, etc.)

The new layering system really does make creating sounds much more interesting.  The flexibility in Pianoteq 7 compared with 6 is enormous IMO.

Experiment, experiment, experiment.

StephenG

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Oh wow!  Thank you for the incredibly helpful observations and advice!   In particular, I wasn't taking into account the free instruments I'll be getting when I'm a paying customer :-)

Also, I appreciate you highlighting that -- even though I'm generally not one to tinker in this context -- making a few straightforward tweaks may be able to significantly improve how I enjoy some of the instruments.

At the moment, I'm pretty stressed with work and kinda tired, so I'm going to dedicate a good amount of time this Saturday (I know, I know, cutting it close) to do some more playing and listening and deciding and will report back!

Thank you again!

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

It appears I accidentally edited my original post rather than replying to it. So I am going to have to try to reconstruct it.

The questions I would ask (I guess for others considering a purchase, since you've already moved forward) are (1) what sounds do you love and (2) what sounds support the music you make?

I got the Steinway package because it supports my classical work and I love the sound.

I got the U4 package because it supports my other work. I also like the sound.

I didn't get the YC5 package, even though I compose rock, because I didn't love the sound.

I got the xylophone package because some of my composing calls for it, and I enjoy the sound.

I added the harp package, even though I don't really write for harp, because I adore the sound. It will probably encourage me to write for harp, and I want to encourage that. (I initially wasn't going to get it because harps use an unusual system for key changes, but that turned out to be learning curve issue; Pianoteq lets me switch between pure keyboard mode and harp (diatonic) mode at the click of a button.)

Hope this helps.

Last edited by ChasMusic (16-08-2021 01:26)

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Okay, I couldn't wait until the weekend, so I spent some more hours playing (with headset and also studio monitors) and ended up picking:
- Steinway D combo
- Petrof combo
- YC5 Rock piano

The YC5 is the one I was least sure of; I really enjoyed playing the Studio preset but was meh on pretty much all the other presets.  But I have such nostalgia playing Yamaha grands growing up and I liked the sound and feel for pop & rock playing with that preset .

I'll spend some time on Saturday checking out the non-grand-piano sounds, but my sense is that I largely have those covered well enough for my tastes with my Komplete Ultimate 13 bundle.

Thanks again for all the food for thought and encouragement .  Happy to begin my Pianoteq journey with such a friendly and helpful community!

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

ThatAdamGuy wrote:

Okay, I couldn't wait until the weekend, so I spent some more hours playing (with headset and also studio monitors) and ended up picking:
- Steinway D combo
- Petrof combo
- YC5 Rock piano

The YC5 is the one I was least sure of; I really enjoyed playing the Studio preset but was meh on pretty much all the other presets.  But I have such nostalgia playing Yamaha grands growing up and I liked the sound and feel for pop & rock playing with that preset .

I'll spend some time on Saturday checking out the non-grand-piano sounds, but my sense is that I largely have those covered well enough for my tastes with my Komplete Ultimate 13 bundle.

Thanks again for all the food for thought and encouragement .  Happy to begin my Pianoteq journey with such a friendly and helpful community!

YC5 is a very safe choice.  Together with the Steinway you've got the two most common grand piano sounds for all the forms of popular music and Classical.
I would like to see them further improve the YC pack. It doesn't need an official license, we all know what it is because they are so ubiquitous.

YC5 pack could do with more presets, and maybe be joined by YC7, and or CFX (YCFX?).
That said in the Pop and Rock genre this is probably the piano model most likely to be treated with 3rd party FX plugins anyway.

It does feel slightly marginalised because it doesn't have an official licence. Same with the K which I prefer much of the time.

Have fun. Lots of new pianos.

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

ThatAdamGuy wrote:

Okay, I couldn't wait until the weekend, so I spent some more hours playing (with headset and also studio monitors) and ended up picking:
- Steinway D combo
- Petrof combo
- YC5 Rock piano

The YC5 is the one I was least sure of; I really enjoyed playing the Studio preset but was meh on pretty much all the other presets.  But I have such nostalgia playing Yamaha grands growing up and I liked the sound and feel for pop & rock playing with that preset .

I'll spend some time on Saturday checking out the non-grand-piano sounds, but my sense is that I largely have those covered well enough for my tastes with my Komplete Ultimate 13 bundle.

Thanks again for all the food for thought and encouragement .  Happy to begin my Pianoteq journey with such a friendly and helpful community!

Good choices and welcome.
As someone already wrote, get the Blüthner too, especially for jazz.

Pianoteq Pro Studio with Bösendorfer, Shigeru Kawai and Organteq

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Owning the Petrof pack, take a look to the Mistral 284 Jazz Recording preset, really interesting. I've tweaked a bit and it sounds like being on a real grand through my Adam T7V monitors at realistic volume level. The sound of the mids and highs is very well achieved.

BEST REGARDS

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Key Fumbler, yes, heh, I did pick rather "safe" choices but I expect I'll branch out over time as I get a bit more adventurous with this instrument & my music'ing
And completely agree with your take on the YC5; it does seem to have more potential and I hope Modartt will give it a bit more love in the future.

Fleer, yep, the Blüthner was on my shortlist and I almost chose it!  It may well be my next purchase.

Tahlendorf, yes, that present on the Mistral is one of my favs and was a big reason why I chose that pack :-)

Anyway, while I have been stupid crazy busy with work (for a deadline this past Friday), I enjoyed relaxing last night with Pianoteq and -- after spontaneously doing a pleasant ~5 minutes improv -- I was super-grateful for Pianoteq's always-recording option.  Here it is, without any editing (though -- as you can likely hear -- it's far from perfect, particularly with a few overly hard-hit notes that stand out). Incidentally, it's the first time I can remember improv'ing in the key of b minor And my experience really highlighted how just fabulously playable Pianoteq pianos are; improv'ing in this situation felt almost like when I was sitting down at a 'real' piano!

I did initially hit a bit of a roadblock:  I was honestly stunned that I couldn't just easily record what I played by hitting PLAY [on the midi file] on the PianoTeq interface into QuickTime or Logic Pro or whatnot on my Mac.  Why on earth does the Mac require a third party program just to record internal sound?!  But the well-respected Audio Hijack program really came through :-).  (Heh, I guess this marks me as an online music n00b, since maybe everyone else already knew about this system default limitation?)

Oh, almost forgot!  The Pianoteq piano in the recording is the Steinway D, "studio" preset (unaltered).


EDITED TO ADD:
Daaaaayum, I had no idea Soundcloud embeds were so huge on this forum.  I really need to do something about that terrible(y cropped) photo

Last edited by ThatAdamGuy (29-08-2021 21:47)

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

ThatAdamGuy wrote:

I enjoyed relaxing last night with Pianoteq and -- after spontaneously doing a pleasant ~5 minutes improv -- I was super-grateful for Pianoteq's always-recording option.   ...  And my experience really highlighted how just fabulously playable Pianoteq pianos are; improv'ing in this situation felt almost like when I was sitting down at a 'real' piano!


Beautiful improv! Thanks for sharing.

Pianoteq can export the audio of a previously recorded MIDI file to an audio file (.wav, .flac, .mp3) rather than simply playing back the audio through the computer speakers or audio interface. Then that exported audio file can be imported into Logic Pro (or in my case in Linux, into Harrison Mixbus32C (also available for Mac and Windows), Ardour, Reaper for Linux, Bitwig Studio, Tracktion or whichever DAW app one is using at the time.

Pianoteq also includes a virtual instrument that can be used within a digital audio workstation program such as Logic Pro or any of the forementioned and others, to play and record audio produced by the Pianoteq plugin either while playing through/using the plugin live, or from a MIDI file produced by Pianoteq or other MIDI recording/editing app (including the DAW itself, in most cases) and played back or imported into the DAW. Lots of possibilities  for playing, recording and routing audio and MIDI within a computer used as a digital audio workstation, and lots of info and forums on the Web devoted to particular DAW apps and to computer-audio-recording within the various computer operating systems.

Anyway, beautiful.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (30-08-2021 13:14)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

ThatAdamGuy wrote:

tl;dr: I'm new to Pianoteq (I plan to buy v7 Standard), and I'd love some advice to help me narrow down my choice of 3 pianos; thanks in advance!

When I first bought Pianoteq it was version 3. I was able to play the version 2 demo for months before buying it. I'd say try the demo version. At the time I didn't have enough space required for the top sampled libraries, while Pianoteq was so novel and easy to use, very responsive, updatable, etc.

There are some demos on YouTube, but you can't beat trying it.
I'd say the Steinway Ds and two others.

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

ThatAdamGuy wrote:

Key Fumbler, yes, heh, I did pick rather "safe" choices but I expect I'll branch out over time as I get a bit more adventurous with this instrument & my music'ing
And completely agree with your take on the YC5; it does seem to have more potential and I hope Modartt will give it a bit more love in the future.

I didn't mean safe to sound derogatory in any way.  For the vast majority of us premium concert grand pianos aren't even on the radar, let alone merely bread and butter options!

Lovely improvisation. Never thought about the piano as being a virtual representation, just the music.

Re: Advice please: Stumped on choosing pianos (new to Pianoteq)

Stephen, Key Fumbler, thank you for the kind words!  It means a lot coming from folks in this forum who are likely quite a bit more focused & accomplished piano-wise than I am!

And :head-slap: HA!  I can't believe I made recording that song a ton harder than I needed to.  Somehow I totally missed the export-to-audio-file option; thank you for pointing it out!

Don, yep... good advice.  I definitely appreciated having the demo version available (I REALLY wish more software instrument makers would offer this!!!) and then bought:
- Steinway D combo
- Petrof combo
- YC5 Rock piano
...and am enjoying them all!

(oh, and Key Fumbler... no offense taken at all, I was just chuckling and nodding my head re the 'safe' choice )

Last edited by ThatAdamGuy (02-09-2021 06:17)